A different kind of Sunday Service: 4DWN's food rescue and recovery
This episode is the second in the new series “More than Food for Thought: Community-Based Solutions to Hunger in South Dallas.” In it, George introduces us to 4DWN’s Sunday Service and its leaders.
4DWN is a skate park, an organization, and a service-driven community that meets the needs of hundreds of kids and families each week. It creates upward mobility opportunities, and through its “Sunday Service” distributes with the help of its volunteers thousands of pounds of nutritious food—eliminating waste and feeding bodies, minds, and souls throughout this area food desert. It’s good for people, and good for the planet.
4DWN “is a metaphor, right? About four wheels down and rolling. It’s a sort of celebration of movement…all moving forward together.” - Rob Cahill
Watch the video, here.
George (00:42):
Welcome to Good God, conversations that Matter about faith and Public Life. I'm your host, George Mason, and this is another in our series of conversations with people working specifically in the neighborhoods of South Dallas to address the issues of food security or food insecurity, depending upon how you put it. In this series called More Than Food for Thought. We'll be talking with nonprofit organizations and those who work with them about how they help to address this challenge to create more flourishing and thriving neighborhoods, specifically neighbors. And today we are at four down in South Dallas, and I'm delighted to introduce to you the director of Engagement of four down Theresa Tumminia. Theresa, would you come and join me please?
Theresa (01:36):
Absolutely. Great to Be here.
George (01:37):
it's wonderful to be with you on this Sunday morning for what's called
Theresa (01:44):
Sunday Service.
George (01:45):
Sunday Service.
Theresa (01:47):
Absolutely. And even though we do food recovery every day of the week, this is the day where our distribution goes out and we especially get to celebrate service and celebrate the, the idea of, um, feeding the, the community.
George (02:00):
Wonderful. Now, why do we have to feed this community?
Theresa (02:04):
This Is a zip code that is in a food desert. There are 12 that we service that are in a food desert. And what that means is that there aren't any grocery stores or there's no viable source, um, and access to any grocery stores and especially grocery stores that do have good, uh, locally sourced nutritious food. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that is definitely, um, absent in these, um, zip codes in these neighborhoods.
George (02:26):
Okay. So you use the language of food recovery. Tell us more about that.
Theresa (02:31):
Right. So the recovery part is where we go out and we wanna make sure that the food gets to the, the people that need it. The rescue part is where we get it from the stores, and then we bring that in. Um, we get it from local farmers, we get it from, um, some of our, uh, corporate partners like Whole Foods. Yes. And we bring that down here to, uh, four down. We separate that all mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and then it goes out and we recover it by bring taking it out to the families that, that need that food.
George (02:57):
And how do you determine what families need that food? Where, where is the food going? Oh,
Theresa (03:03):
That's a super great question. So our, we like to target families who aren't really eligible for services normally. Um, but again, we do feed anybody who needs that in those, in those zip codes. <Theresa greets food recipient, brief exchange>
Theresa (03:17):
If you are a family who can't get services because of some reason, maybe you're, uh, uh, paperwork or you make too much money mm-hmm. <affirmative> or something like that, you might be outside of those guidelines mm-hmm. <affirmative>, then we definitely target those families. Um, here,
George (03:32):
I, I think you just said something really interesting because you make too much money. So there is kind of a donut hole isn't there in the, in this social services world. So what does it mean for you to make too much money and therefore be in more need than if you weren't making as much money?
Theresa (03:50):
Absolutely. You might be able to, um, go to your local store and get a bag of Cheetos, but you're not gonna see fresh fruit. You're not gonna see greens. And making too much money means that you're not gonna have that quality of life period. Right. Food is your pharmacy. It starts with your poverty level and how much you're making. And if you're making too much, you can't, you don't qualify. There is a cutoff line.
George (04:12):
Food Is your pharmacy. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So food as medicine is a really interesting point about all of this. And in our conversations that we've been having with other nonprofits, and you've been around this table as we've been focusing on sustainable communities, specifically on South Dallas, when we talk about food as medicine, we're talking about the quality of food that is nutritious, right? Yes. Versus the kind of food that is not necessarily helping to create healthy individuals or families. So say more about food is medicine or food is your pharmacy.
Theresa (04:51):
Okay. Food is your pharmacy is one of my favorite things because I very rarely bring up the fact that I've had to use that to, um, bridge the gap from chemo to not chemo. I'm celebrating my second year of that. So this is something that I was raised with in my family and I just thought everyone ate this way, but as far as growing their own food. And, but, um, food is, your pharmacy is so important 'cause it is, it is your first medicine cabinet. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it is the way that you direct your body and teach it mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, into the things that it's, that it needs mm-hmm. <affirmative> and of course if things go wrong, so diabetes, you know, hypertension, um, cancer, there's so many things that if it's not the cure for it, then it's definitely alleviates any of the symptoms.
Theresa (05:35):
So food is, your pharmacy feeds that, and your heart and your soul. You know, when I get to go in, I'm honored to be able to go in and meet with these families and they might have a cultural need that they don't have any meat or dairy or, you know, pork in their diet. Yes. I can do that because of the quality of food. They might have children who are gluten free and normally they wouldn't be able to go to a food bank. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Well, I can do that, you know, we can do that here at Four Down. We can cater to those so much so that we do work with other corporate partners like For Oak Cliff and places like that, that do a customize medicine bag. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> their actual programs that are doing that. Okay. Yeah.
George (06:13):
So we have Food for the Body and Food for the Soul. Uh, both. You mentioned Soul a minute ago. This program is called Good God, after all. , a nd so everyone who is volunteering here on Sunday for Sunday service is not a personally religious person. They, uh, are humanitarian and obviously want to give back. Right. But is there a faith connection for you in, in this work that you're doing?
Theresa (06:41):
The faith connection is that it is spiritual. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, this is healing. Um, again, there's nobody that comes here. I I can't imagine that you would come here and do this work and not feel better, feel good. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, absolutely. Okay. I think that, um, other than the fact that I believe in it Yeah. And, and I know that it works good. It's spiritual.
George (07:00):
Wonderful. Yes. Thank you very much. Thank you. <short interlude> . I'm here with Byron Harris. What a wonderful opportunity to get to reconnect here, uh, because the person behind the camera here, Byron, is Jim Tapley. And you and Jim worked together at W F A A for years and years. 41 years, I think you were a reporter for W F A A Channel 8.
Byron (07:24):
Yeah. A long time in dog years, more than 200.
George (07:27):
Okay. so there you go. <laugh>. But now in retirement, you find yourself continuing to be active and Habitat for Humanity, Austin Street Shelter, things of that nature, but also 4DWN, you're here. Yeah. How did you get involved?
Byron (07:41):
Uh, it's a long story. It's just like one person introduces you to another person and, and before you know it, you get involved in a new organization. So that's, that's the short version.
George (07:52):
And behind us, uh, all the way down here is Byron's refrigerator. Yeah. Tell us about that.
Byron (07:59):
Well, I, we ended up with the next refrigerator, so I gave it to four down. I mean, uh,
George (08:04):
So when people come here, I think they, they're able to go into that refrigerator and take what they need. Is that, is Tha t right?
Byron (08:10):
Yeah. Yeah. There's drinks and stuff there. Right. Mostly drinks for the skaters and the people who work on Sunday.
George (08:18):
Great. You were talking with me earlier about the fact that there's also a, uh, a, a container, uh, behind the skate park here that is refrigerated. What's that all about?
Byron (08:30):
Theresa Collects produce during the week that we can store in that cold storage to redistribute on Sunday mornings.
George (08:37):
Terrific.
Byron (08:38):
But it, It, it, it's, it's a cranky machine and it got broken into a couple weeks ago, so we... We're in progress.
George (08:47):
Okay. Speaking about progress, I mean, it's hard to measure how four down succeeds, isn't it? Uh, but it's sometimes more the process than the progress. Tell us about your experience in the process, at least.
Byron (09:04):
Well, my experience is just do one, help one person at a time. And at some point it, it might gain critical momentum. Okay. Uh, so I, I, you know, coming out of a journalism, you have kind of grandiose ideas, well, we should do this. You know, if you're gonna fix homelessness, you can't really fix it. <laugh>. I mean, it's a, if you, but you might be able to help one person. And that's kind of like what I've learned, mostly, frankly, from women. I mean, the people who run a lot of these organizations are women and they succeed. Right. Because they don't have grandiose male ideas. Ah, in my opinion.
George (09:45):
Okay. They just operate from need to need. Yeah.
Byron (09:49):
Yeah. They, they know somebody who needs something. They help that person, that person, if we're lucky, help somebody else. And that's the synergy that might happen.
George (09:59):
I think you just named a lot of the key of success of nonprofit organizations is how many women are involved in leading them and, uh, operating these organizations. And, uh, for those of us who are used to being in charge, to come along and learn from them is really an important thing. Yeah.
Byron (10:16):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh,
George (10:17):
Terrific. Well, thanks so much for all you do, and it's great to see you in the community. Uh, we are not, not seeing you on TV now, but now Well, we've kind of seeing you, you on tv. Yeah. Great to be with you. By you. Thank you. <short interlude, hear skate wheels on ramp> . I'm here with Rob Cahill, one of the two founders, along with Mike Crumb of four Down, which started in 2015. And behind me you see the skateboard, uh, park. And this is, uh, actually a, a rarity in the us. Tell us more about that.
Rob (10:48):
Oh, this particular ramp here, so this is called a vert ramp, right? So this is the kind of skateboarding that Tony Hawk does. And in fact, my partner, uh, Mike Crumb is part of Tony Hawk's Legends tour these days. So wonderful. So those guys can keep doing this is sort of like the skateboarding, flying trapeze, you know what I mean? Gotcha. But the more common forms of skating that you see out in the streets and the neighborhoods and the skate parks, that's, that's the predominant kind of skateboarding. This is a very, very rare thing, as you can imagine. It's a very specialized thing. And it's the only one in the whole country professional vert ramp that's sort of just available to the average person off the street. An average person could walk through here and skate with a professional skateboarder on this, like today, right now.
George (11:23):
Incredible. Yeah. And, and there are smaller par uh, ramps around here as well. Yeah. Yeah. But how do you get Rob from a skateboard park right, to food distribution <laugh> in, in South Dallas? What, what, tell us about how all that came to be. Right.
Rob (11:40):
Well, first of all, we had, we had to make ourselves feel better, right? So we did something for ourselves. We helped ourselves mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then once we felt better, it's sort of a contagious thing. You, you naturally, you know, you're inclined to help other people, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And we didn't really realize, you know, know you, you know, when you go from one part of town to another that, you know, different parts have different needs. Yeah. But we didn't quite realize the extent of the needs, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, so we're, we happen to be in one of the nation's largest food deserts. It's also a recreational desert. It's a infrastructure desert. And so, uh, it's also the part of town that's most affordable, which is why we were always finding ourselves in South Dallas. Right. But, uh, but as time went on, you know, we meet more folks and, and different people, you know, let us know about things. So we've learned quite a lot from a lot of our different partners. And along the way, we, we realized that our culture is a culture that takes action. We like ingenuity mm-hmm. <affirmative> and we're naturally inclusive. So if you have those traits and those qualities, and you're not afraid to try things, 'cause obviously we're not afraid or failure, or afraid of exactly. Anything like that. So you put those qualities together and it becomes a contagious thing that we're able to help other folks because we helped ourselves to begin with. Right.
George (12:42):
What is the words for down mean in a skateboard culture? Or, or how did you come to, to use that phrase?
Rob (12:49):
Right. Well, that is a metaphor, right? About four wheels down and rolling. And it's a sort of a celebration of, uh, of just, of just movement. So here it is a metaphor about let's all moving forward together. Right? Okay. It's always rolling forward together. So again, it's a contagious, fun thing.
George (13:03):
Terrific. Now you're wearing a t-shirt that says spiritual gangster <laugh>. Okay. That's street lingo in some way, but it also goes to something of the soul of this work. Yes, sir. Tell us more about that.
Rob (13:15):
Well, you know, I think going back to the original thing is that, you know, we all need help. Yeah. And those of us that are lucky enough to help ourselves, um, we might find ourselves in a position where we've been able to meet our, our most basic fundamental needs. And at a certain level, you, you find the need to, to find meaning and purpose and value in your life. And, uh, then you start to realize, well, all these other folks, they need things that are, that are more physiological. They need food, they need water, they need shelter, they need clothing, they need, you know, uh, they need internet, for instance. Right? Right. So people can come here and get internet. They can get drinks, they can get food. They, you know, so they can find community. Right? So these are all things that we need in Maslow's hierarchy, so to speak.
Rob (13:53):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and those of us who've been lucky enough to make it to the top of that ladder, you find yourself in a position that it becomes a sustainable wheel. It's not a one directional thing. Ah, there you go. Right? Yeah. So then you get to the top of that ladder, you realize, well, you know what? I actually find meaning and purpose in my life by helping other people who have these more fundamental needs that we're able to, to do something about. 'cause we found out that 40% of food goes to waste. Right. And here we are in, in a part of town that's almost, there's over 40% of Dallas, it's in a food desert. Right. It's incredible. Meanwhile, this food, when it goes to the landfill creates methane, which is 20 over 20 times more powerful, um, greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. Wow. So you're helping the environment, you're helping people, and let's, let's just face it, waste not wanting whatnot. Right. Right. It's just a basic principle. Right. So it's a unifying thing because anybody and everybody has felt being hungry. Yes. So you realize, you know, that feeling. So when you're helping people not feel hungry, you feel good.
George (14:46):
And here we are, Sunday service mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and there's probably a congregation here of about maybe 40 people. Right. That's helping to break down the food that has come from Whole Foods and, and, and they're repackaging it for distribution to hungry and needy neighbors. Yes. And yet, when you look at this congregation mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, these are, these are people from all walks of life.
Rob (15:11):
They really are. They really are. And I'm always shocked to find out who these people really are in their real lives. Yeah. A lot of these are rock stars in their real lives, you know, lawyers and doctors and movers and shakers. But when they come here, everyone's just, it's an egalitarian thing. Right. You know, you're here because you want to, you choose to. Right. So it's an act of empowerment. Now, some of our neighbors here actually don't have homes. Yes. But they're here helping other folks mm-hmm. <affirmative> at the same time. So you have just the, just the greatest diversity. But again, we're sort of just like, that we're sort of open and welcoming because what unites people here is more about values. So on the surface it's like, how do you get all these weirdos together? Right. Cool. Really? 'cause we're connecting at a value level. Right. That's, that's, that's why you see the diversity, because humans below that surface level, um, are quite the same. Right.
George (15:55):
So for people watching this, the website is 4DWN.org. Yes. And you can find out more about what Four Down does overall, but also you can donate and you can come volunteer.
Rob (16:10):
That'd be great. Okay. We need all that.
George (16:12):
Alright, terrific wisdom. Thank you so much, Rob.
Rob (16:14):
Thank You.