10 for 10: Voting Vision not Division | "What Makes This Land Holy?" Reflections on the Israel/Hamas War One Year Later
In this special episode, the Faith Commons team reflects on the one-year anniversary of the war between Israel and Hamas. Drawing from their own experiences in the region and their faith traditions, Rev. Dr. George Mason, Rabbi Nancy Kasten, and Mara Richards Bim grapple with the complexities of ongoing violence and the pursuit of peace. They discuss the difficulties of peacemaking, the limits of our understanding, and the importance of solidarity and compassion in a world divided by conflict. As they consider the impact of faith on public policy and voting, they challenge listeners to reflect on what makes a land holy and how to work toward a future rooted in justice and peace.
What is 10 for 10: Voting Vision not Division? Starting on September 2, 2024 and continuing every Monday for ten weeks through November 4, Faith Commons is offering ten 10-minute reflections on topics related to the upcoming election through the lens of religion. Our premise is that religion should be used to unite people and groups of people rather than to divide them, and that the founders of our country shared our view.
Watch the video, here.
George (00:05):
Welcome to 10 for 10 Voting Vision, not Division. Today, uh, we are addressing as Faith Commons George Mason, Mara Richards Bim, Nancy Caston, something that is difficult for all of us right now, and the three of us in particular. And that is the subject of the Israel Gaza War, October 7th. Today is one year since the attack of Hamas on neighboring villages and Israel, and the taking of Israeli hostages, the murder of many Israelis, the, uh, terrible, uh, abuse, rape, and horrors that followed. And of course, in the wake of that, uh, Israel's retaliation that has now taken 40,000 lives, terrorized a region and continues unabated at this time as, uh, the, the region is in great turmoil and, and trauma. People around the world are experiencing this in deep, deeply personal ways. It was personal for us because, uh, I was there in Jerusalem on the morning of, of October 7th when the attack first happened.
George (01:37):
I was going to meet a group that included Mara and Nancy that was coming to join, uh, me for a faith commons trip that would be a bridge building peacemaking trip, uh, where we, we would be meeting with people in Israel and in Palestine, uh, the Palestinian Territories, who were working to bridge their differences, to build friendships, to help create a, a, a future, uh, together. And what we saw, uh, on that day was a painful reminder of how far we get our from that we're going to talk today about our reflections, uh, about all of that. And I'll, I'll simply begin and then turn it over, uh, to the others for conversation. And I, I want to say that this has been a difficult year for all of us. For me, as a Christian, uh, it, it is, uh, a recognition of the limits of my, uh, ability to, uh, find solutions and to know how to relate to people who are in pain.
George (02:43):
Given that, uh, I know that there are Christian Palestinians for whom I am deeply concerned, uh, who are hurting greatly. But, uh, also there are Israeli Jews and American Jews as well as Palestinians in, in America for whom there is a, a, a deep grief and pain as well. Pain knows no ethnic identity. It is simply a matter of, of the human condition. And I have learned that I need to not try to fix everyone during this year, but to listen to them, to be as present with them as I can and not try to be omniscient about what solutions I can offer from afar, but rather what solidarity I can give by being, uh, with people and compassionate as best I can. Uh, there's a lot more to say, but at the very least, uh, from my Christian perspective, what I think we want to try to offer is a, a reminder that violence begets violence, begets violence, and we have to figure out a way creatively to be peacemakers and to live together on this planet. Uh, always the Middle East has been a crucible for the rest of the world. We've experienced that this year. And I'd be interested in hearing your reflections. My friends.
Mara (04:16):
Well, I landed in Tel Aviv on the seventh, my flight. I was with my mother. We were coming to join you, and our flight was the last one that was allowed in. Um, and then because I was a student at SMU, um, at the time, SMU took care of getting my mother and I out, um, about 40, 48 hours later. Um, I had, fortunately, that was my second trip to Israel Palestine that year, and I had actually, um, and so grateful that I was able to go, uh, about nine months earlier and, um, and visit both Israel and Palestinian Territories, and even had dinner with a, uh, in the home of a Palestinian Christian family. So, um, I would just echo what you say as a Christian, I think, um, I think too often some in the Christian tradition, um, look towards some idea of an apocalypse and complicate things, um, in the Middle East. And I think, um, we all can agree that our God is a God of peace and of love for all.
George (05:37):
So Nancy, I was there, uh, and Mara was able to make it and then leave. And some of us, uh, were in the group and had to find our way to Jordan before we could find our way out. We were, uh, struggling to figure out how to remain safe and what the circumstances would be. You were one of our group that, that did not get on the plane. Uh, you were, uh, here and that had a special, um, uh, pain for you because of, uh, your experience, uh, with wanting to be in solidarity. What are your reflections in this year after?
Nancy (06:17):
Uh, I can't even begin to explain how shocking this whole thing was. Um, uh, as you know, um, my first experience in Israel was in 1976, shortly after the Yom Kipuur War. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And, um, I was very young, and I've been, you know, traveling to Israel in all kinds of, um, uh, groups for all kinds of purposes for the last 50 plus years. So, um, for almost 50 years again. Um, and this trip, this experience that we had planned, what makes this land holy, was really the culmination of my dreams over many years about how to really experience what was possible in this land. And I just wanted to read, um, part of our newsletter that was scheduled to go out on October 7th that never went out. Um, and it was describing our, um, our trip. It was inviting people to follow us, uh, on social media to all the places we were, we were gonna be going.
Nancy (07:35):
And, um, what I had written was at a time when nothing is sacred and sowing conflict seems profitable, identifying and raising up the whole and holy is an act of sustenance and resistance. As we travel to Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, Bethlehem and the Galilee, Jericho and Ramala, our group will listen to the voices and witness the work of Israelis and Palestinians who are repairing what is broken and sowing seeds of hope. We will hear their stories and understand our own in a new light. We will hear about their struggles and realize how familiar they sound. And I feel like that was, you know, that was what we were going there to do. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, and I couldn't switch gears just because of October 7th. I mean, as shocking and horrific as it was, and as concerned, fearful, and angry as I was, um, confused and certainly con concerned for all of, for you and the group that was there.
Nancy (08:45):
Um, I couldn't switch gears. I mean, I knew too much. I mean, George and I had been to Israel together and Palestine together in the, in, uh, 2018. Okay. He bought me this shawl, which is made in Gaza. You bought it in Jerusalem, I believe I did. But it's made in Gaza. I am wearing around my neck, both a, um, uh, uh, a tag that reminds me of this terrible state of the hostages and also a necklace that I bought in Israel many years ago in part of Jerusalem, as well as a, um , Hamsa, which was made in Bethlehem from the canister of a tear gas canister. I had been in March of 2023 in Susya. I had seen what was going on in the occupied territories. I was seeing how settler violence was driving people out of their homes. I was, I was in also in, uh, February of 2023 marching with Israelis who were protesting the, um, attempted judicial coup by the Netanyahu government.
Nancy (09:58):
So I couldn't turn all that off and start all over again on October 7th. And yet at the same at, you know, the people in my community seeing, you know, many were really feeling like the only thing we could respond to in that moment was October 7th. And I, I couldn't do it. And so, you know, it's been a process for me over this year of finding my voice again and finding, um, the partners and the builders of hope, because all those people and groups that we were meeting with, that we were scheduled to meet with, they still exist, and they're still doing their work. Right. Despite this year of horror. Yeah.
George (10:42):
Well, the fact that you're wearing these things, uh, reminds me of your courageous acts of solidarity with Palestinians in the wake of this that were painful and costly for you in the Jewish community. I know that you and I went to, uh, a Palestinian rally in Dallas, uh, just the day after I got back. Uh, and, uh, we, uh, spoke and you did, uh, a, um, a, a, a television, uh, interview, and this was, uh, a matter of contention for you, uh, among your Jewish colleagues. Similarly for me, I know that, uh, it, I, I had to respond from Israel to lots of, uh, inquiries from the media. And, uh, the response from some of, uh, my friends who are rabbis here in Dallas were that, you know, I, it was too soon to be talking about the root causes and, uh, to, to be offering anything but condolence to, uh, to Jews and Israelis, and that that was painful for them.
George (11:57):
And at the same time, it, in the year that's followed, uh, because I am still closely connected to Palestinian Christians in the West Bank, uh, the, uh, the need for them to hear me speak in, uh, un unequivocal terms about their cause and about the need to challenge, uh, Israeli violence and settler colonialism and genocide and apartheid, and using language like that to help join their cause, if I am not speaking clearly in that way, this is painful for them as well. And so we're all caught, and then we have our Muslim friends, uh, who are feeling as though no one in the US is offering enough solidarity to speak up on their behalf. And then we, we have the US military budget sending, uh, bombs that are killing Palestinian Muslims. And regardless of what party you're in, no one is holding them accountable. We are all struggling. In other words, with the fact that we have all of these relationships, none of us is perfectly isolated or has the clear answer. There are pieces of the truth everywhere, and we have to acknowledge the limits of our ability to know what is good and right in any given moment.
Nancy (13:31):
I think that, um, unfortunately asking people to pass litmus tests when it comes to language has been extremely harmful. Yes. Um, for everyone, and has, and has really curtailed dialogue. And dialogue is the only thing that is gonna help us build back our trust and relationships with people who we are not going to be able to eliminate from our lives. Right. Whether they are, you know, here in the US or in Israel. And, you know, I think, and Palestine, I mean, I think we know now that there are two peoples who have claimed to that land, and they're gonna have to figure it out. And we can play a part in helping do that, but we also have to recognize that there are a lot of people who live in this land here. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And we have to figure out how to, for, for us, right, right. For ourselves, how to live together, how to talk to one another, how to build back our skills of dialogue because we've lost them. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. And, you know, I think that when we use, unfortunately when we use terms like even antisemitism or, um, apartheid or, uh, ceasefire or even we are limiting our conversation, instead of really delving into what do we mean by this? What is the world we want to envision and how are we going to get there?
Mara (14:57):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, we were all, the three of us were a part of that conversation, um, in the Welcoming committee in Dallas down at City Hall. And it, it was bank leaders from all over Dallas. And, and for all intents and purposes, that conversation broke down after just a few meetings because of that very point that, um, the use of language. And, and I was struck by the fact that if these faith leaders, um, in Dallas cannot sit together Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and physically removed from Israel Palestine and have this conversation, um, and that language was so inflammatory that I didn't know how it would be possible, um, for it to happen elsewhere.
George (15:42):
I do think that some of the most powerful moments that we have seen, though during the course of the last year is when we reach out to people who we know are hurting, and we, uh, we are physically present with them. We offer our words of love and support, especially across lines, uh, that have been traditionally separated, Nancy, uh, watching you and Hind Jarrah, hug at that rally. And, uh, and, and the tears, uh, that she felt, uh, in that moment was a healing thing I know for her as a Palestinian American. Uh, and, uh, I think, uh, when we pick up the phone, when we have a cup of coffee with, um, people who, uh, whose hearts are particularly hurting for the, the, the a hundred hostages that continue, uh, to be unaccounted for, uh, for, you know, the, the Palestinian children, uh, our hearts are just broken. And the solidarity of compassion is part of our religious tradition that is a necessary prelude to finding a way forward in peace. So find a way to reach out is, I think, our message. Don't be paralyzed by, by the pain of what might happen, but instead take the risk of relationship in some way.
Nancy (17:08):
I also wanna say that it's really incumbent on all of us to be looking beyond the usual, um, resource because, you know, we just heard yesterday that Al Jazeera in the West Bank has been shut down. Um, you know, we know that Western, um, news sources are expelled from, uh, other countries in the Middle East. We have to dig deep to find out, to hear the stories that we're not automatically hearing and recognize that often those stories when, when we do hear them in the, um, in the regular media, uh, are being shaped by particular interest groups. So we just have to be really, really, uh, cognizant of that as we go forward.
Mara (17:52):
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, and I would say, I think this moment is gonna take creative thinking and not, um, and not going to the tried and true, um, uh, talking points about how this gets quote unquote solved. And as Americans, and for George and I as Christians, I also think that it is a moment to sit and listen and not impose.
Nancy (18:17):
So much of this has to do with fear. And some people are addressing their fear by trying to eliminate the other Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> or separate completely from the other. So this idea that Hamas will be wiped out, well, we know that's not gonna happen. And now, you know, there's a war with Hezbollah as well, which has been boring for a long time. Those, those groups are not going to disappear. And likewise, antisemitism is not going to disappear. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> similarly, we can say racism in this country and all over the world isn't gonna disappear either. The question is in the face of, we can't eliminate, we can't make an idle out, out of our feeling that, you know, that security is the number one goal. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, that no matter what anything is, is, um, acceptable in the interest of security because there is no ultimate security, except as we know in, you know, the eternal one who somehow will pull us through this and give us strength to go through it as, as long as we have to. But it's up to us to, you know, say, what are, what risks are we willing to take to try to turn the tide of this, you know, just massive violence that we're seeing all over the world. Amen. So
George (19:36):
We wanna thank you for allowing us to have a kind of double edition of 10 for 10. Uh, this is, uh, uh, an important subject that I know we'll never be able to exhaust even in 20 minutes time. Um, but as you think about how you vote, we would urge you to consider what's truly, uh, formative in your faith tradition. Uh, and, uh, and, and think about the values that you take into the voter booth and, and, and consider what makes for peace. What makes for sharing, uh, life on this planet. Those are the kinds of values that we would urge you to vote for. And a reminder that no one's perfect, no party's perfect, no candidate is perfect, and yet we have to do the very best we can in approximating that vision, uh, that we all want to see come to pass. Thank you for joining us.