Mark Melton Didn’t Plan to Fight Evictions—Until He Had To

When the COVID-19 pandemic upended lives and livelihoods, attorney Mark Melton found himself unexpectedly answering thousands of questions about eviction law—and discovered just how broken the system really was. In this episode, George talks with Mark about the origins of the Dallas Eviction Advocacy Center, the legal myths we cling to, and why ensuring due process for all renters is both a legal and moral imperative. They also explore the intersection of law, poverty, politics, and personal values—whether grounded in faith or not.

Mark Melton is a Dallas-based tax attorney and founder of the Dallas Eviction Advocacy Center, a nonprofit organization that provides legal representation to tenants facing eviction.

Watch the video, here.

George (00:00):

Welcome to Good God, conversations that matter about faith and public Life. I'm your host George Mason, and I'm joined for this conversation today by Mark Melton. Mark is a lawyer in Dallas, and he is the head of a nonprofit organization as well called the Dallas Eviction Advocacy Center. . And he does, uh, tremendous work. And Mark, we're really glad to welcome you.

Mark Melton (00:26):

Thank you to Good God. ` Well, glad to be here. Great.

George (00:29):

So, Mark, uh, lawyers have their practices. You do tax work as a private lawyer, but this whole work of defending people who are renters and who are in danger of getting evicted, how did this fall into your lap and how did you find your, your way with this and, and your calling about it?

Mark Melton (00:53):

You know, largely by accident as I think a lot of things in my life have been, uh, when the, when the pandemic began, I just posted a Facebook post about, uh, eviction moratorium, . And at the time, I was posting about all the stay at home orders and various things that were happening that were pandemic related. But that eviction moratorium post went viral. And before I knew it, I was taking phone calls and emails and social media messages about, you know, I was just told I can't go to work tomorrow, but my rent's still due in two weeks. What am I supposed to do? And does this protect me? . Um, the, the problem was I knew nothing about eviction law. . And so I was sitting there for 20 hours a day trying to research these questions in real time so I could answer all the questions and get back to people that were reaching out.

Mark Melton (01:40):

And after about a week, my wife looked at me and said, you know, it's okay to ask for help. And so I thought that was a pretty good idea. She has lots of good ideas, . And so I did that. I just put the bat signal out on the internet and said, dear lawyers, uh, here's what I'm seeing and this is what I'm doing. Anybody wanna help me? And ? So over the next 10 months, we recruited about 250 lawyers, and we helped about 6,500 families Wow. Navigate pandemic era evictions. So, and at that point, it was just kind of a ad hoc volunteer program that we were running, but we had been in enough courts and seen enough situations where, you know, I really started to realize how broken this whole system is. And so, you know, I, I grew up with these notions of the rule of law and constitutional s and, um, that we're a society that, you know, values these things, and that's what makes it work.

Mark Melton (02:33):

And what I discovered over the course of that year, that, that is a myth. . It's all made up. The rule of law is meaningless. The constitution is meaningless. Uh, it's just words it a page. . So the Constitution doesn't stand up and fight for you, it just sits there. Ah, and unless somebody who knows how to wield that power gets up and does it, um, you're kind of at a loss. So, so at that point, we shifted to a full-time staff model, started a 5 0 1 C3 called the Dallas Eviction Advocacy Center. And ever since have been kind of growing and representing more and more tenants as we've moved along. Today, we've got 25 full-time employees, and in 2024, we represented about 5,200 tenants Wow. In full Ovation trials.

George (03:19):

So let's get very basic for our audience about evictions. What happens. So it, it seems to me that, you know, when most people rent an apartment, they have to put down a deposit . And generally a first and last, uh, month's rent. And so when the time comes for a landlord to say, you know, for whatever reason, uh, they want to evict you, and we can talk about what those might be, uh, they already have money. It seems to me that they have, have accumulated on the front end, uh, to, to pay for this transition and allow them a period of time to, to go. Isn't that enough?

Mark Melton (04:09):

<laugh>? Depends on who you ask. , um, you know, I mean, the deposit is not supposed to be used for rent. . It's a deposit . And so you kind of exclude that. You should in theory, get it back at the end. . I think most people that have rented apartments knows, uh, know how that goes. Yes. Um, the first and last month rent, same thing it's supposed to be for the last month. So if you get to month two and you haven't paid, you're in default. Okay. And so, and you can see it from the landlord's perspective, if you're missing one month . And now I've gotta use this money that's supposed to be cushioned to cover you, what's gonna happen the next month. . And so people start to get concerned and move forward with the evictions, which I have no inherent objection to the idea of eviction in a society where the housing is provided by private parties . And so, you know, people should be paid for the use of their property. . I, I don't disagree with that philosophically . Uh, but the, the way that we go about the process of doing the evictions, um, is, is oftentimes, um, chaotic and wrong.

George (05:13):

Well, there's notification required . In a period of time. And often that notification is not, is not given.

Mark Melton (05:21):

Um, it is. And even when it is given, it's not a long period of time. Okay. So from, for most departments in Texas, it's only a 24 hour notice. Oh,

George (05:30):

Okay.

Mark Melton (05:30):

So the landlord gives you a notice, says get out within 24 hours. And that scares people 'cause they think this looks like a legal document. I actually have to leave in 24 hours. What am I supposed to do? . Who can find a place to go in 24 hours. Sure. . Um, but that's not really true. That just starts the process. I see. So then on day two, they go file an eviction lawsuit against the person, and then it works its way through the court, usually within just a couple weeks. . Um, and then they get their, their rid of possession. And if the tenant hasn't left by then, then the constable shows up with the landlord and they throw all their things in the front yard and people are left to figure it out on their own.

George (06:07):

But you have so many cases that you are trying, uh, to defend people who are being evicted. What is a typical, uh, argument in defense of, of the, uh, renter who's being, uh, evicted?

Mark Melton (06:24):

I mean, a lot of 'em are different, . It depends on why they're being evicted. But the typical case is a non-payment of rent case. . Okay. So most of 'em, we see the tenant hasn't paid the rent. Uh, but back to this point of the rule of law, uh, you know, our constitution Gar guarantees us procedural due process . And so the state of Texas has set up this process that a landlord must follow in order to evict, uh, because this is a pretty serious remedy. . We're not talking about a speeding ticket and a $20 fine, but we're

George (06:53):

Creating homelessness is what

Mark Melton (06:54):

We're really doing. . That's exactly . And so you want procedural guardrails to make sure that that process is done correctly. . Uh, and just from a 30,000 foot policy perspective, you wanna make sure that you've given the tenant a reasonable opportunity for a soft landing. Sure. Um, in an ideal scenario, the tenant just moves out, um, or they put their things in storage and stay with a friend, uh, instead of losing everything in the front yard and going under a bridge. Um, so, so in a typical case, what we're really looking at are these procedural due process issues. . Did the landlord follow the rules in order to get this person out of the home? And more often than not, the answer is no. . So there is, prior to covid, fewer than 3% of tenants had lawyers. They were almost all legal aid volunteer lawyers. Um, which meant that landlords had a 97 plus percent chance of going into a court not having any kind of real opposition. . 'cause most of these people are, these are poor people that are unsophisticated. Yeah.

George (07:53):

Think about that.

Mark Melton (07:55):

And so what we found was they never followed the rules. 'cause they never had to. Ah, and so there was no counterbalance or accountability in the system. . And so evictions was just a rubber stamp process. You just go and tell the judge they're behind on rent, no one asks any questions about process and rubber stamp, you get your eviction. Uh, when covid occurred and we showed up on the scene, now we were representing a brown, 60 plus percent of every single tenant in Dallas County that shows up for their hearing. Um, so that accountability system has shifted and the rubber stamp has gone away. And so now the landlords, and I don't think there's a big ask, just follow the rules. It's literally give one notice before you file a lawsuit. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. And then maybe show up to court with some evidence.

Mark Melton (08:44):

. Um, 'cause again, we're asking for a very serious remedy here. You should have to prove that you were entitled to it. . Uh, and I've had a case in the last year or two where I went to the court, we won the case, and the landlord was very frustrated and yelled at the judge, um, are you telling me I've gotta bring evidence to every one of these things? Now <laugh>, so <laugh>, uh, and the answer should be obviously yes. Yes. . You're asking a court of law to do something for you. . Prove it. So, so really what we've done is we've, we've just changed this accountability standard to where you just have to follow the law and that's it.

George (09:24):

Okay. So now that that's happened, and you are representing thousands of, uh, of people, uh, in, in their suits with their landlords, uh, the Texas legislature is at work with House Bill 32 and Senate Bill 38 . Which is, I understand it is essentially the landlords saying, uh, we don't wanna have to go through this process. We, we That's . We want to fast track this and not have to have the burden of evidence and all of these sorts of things. Can you describe what's happening there now?

Mark Melton (10:03):

Sure. So there, there are these bills in the legislature that were written by the Texas Department Association . Okay. So I don't know if everyone knows, but legislators don't actually ever write laws. They just . Get them from stakeholders. Yes. Um, this one is diabolical. . Like it is a wild divergence from anything that most people would see. Um, it calls for evictions within 10 days without trial at all. So just get rid of that part. Um, it provides for a poison pill to remove legal aid funding for legal aid lawyers that would help the tenants. That

George (10:39):

Would

Mark Melton (10:40):

Be you and that would be me. Yes. Um, and so, so if you can, if you can separate the lawyers from the tenants . You can abuse them . Because there is no protector there. . And so we meet, 90 plus percent of our clients are in the courtroom. We have tables out front. We just sit there and as the tenants walk in the court, we tap 'em on the shoulder and say, Hey, let's help you. And that's where we meet most of our clients. So . If there is no trial, and that person is never in the courtroom, and we're defunded, so we're not in the courtroom. . Uh, or either one of those things happens. . Then the likelihood that these tenants are gonna get just basic due process and the benefit of the rule of law, um, drops to near zero.

George (11:23):

Yes. So this, this raises the question of what government is for too. I mean, uh, it, it seems like our representatives now are, uh, serving, uh, the constituencies that, that essentially they know will pay them or get them reelected rather than all of their constituency and providing protections for citizens and consumers, uh, that only government can do, really. That's right. And so what we have now is an a, a a a movement in government to support the people who are going to exploit citizens, uh, a along the way if they get the opportunity to do so. How is that good government?

Mark Melton (12:15):

Well, it's not is the short answer. Uh, and, and you're right. I think part of the role of government is to fill a void that the private sector can't fill. . Or won't, it won't

George (12:25):

Police itself.

Mark Melton (12:27):

That, that that's right. And so, you know, you think about things like, you know, schools . Or highways or . Or things like that. Those are things that the private sector there, there's no economic incentive in a capitalist society . To do those things at any kind of scale. . And so, therefore, the government, if, if we value an educated populace or we value easy transportation, . These are things that help us. All. The government's the only party that can step in and provide that. . Um, consumer protection is the same type of issue where you've got the powerful doing business transactions with the powerless. Yes. Um, and everyone says, well, contract s, and, but we all know you're not negotiating these contracts. . . Who got, who got to mark up their cell phone contract recently. .

George (13:10):

Exactly. Right. Yeah.

Mark Melton (13:11):

Um, and it's the same with housing and leases, right? Yeah. As a society, we have, uh, at least we should, and I think most of us don't want to see homeless people . On the streets, um, for ver for different reasons, maybe . But, um, but we don't want that. We want people to be stably housed. We want them to be productive citizens in the society, uh, but they're not getting to negotiate these leases.

George (13:35):

Well, okay. So let's take a macro view of this also as to why we're here. Why can't, uh, people pay their rent? And this is also a factor, right? So we have a minimum wage that hasn't gone up in decades, $7 and 25 cents, and we have a tremendous shortage of low income housing and of affordable housing. And so, you know, poverty itself is creating the pressure on, on these, uh, these factors. . It's, it's like anywhere you touch in the spider web, it affects everything else, right? That's right. So a lot of what we have to figure out is what kind of community do we really want? You know, and how, how will we, how will we make it possible for everyone to flourish? And right now, uh, the, the pressure that we're talking about in housing, uh, is being caused largely by this problem of poverty.

Mark Melton (14:40):

I mean, it's, there's a lot of causes for, for this. Um, I mean, part of the problem is, as you know, there's not enough supply, right? Mm-. So if there's basic economics, you don't have enough supply, the price goes up. . Um, you know, just in Dallas rents, and a lot of people think of the rental market as this monolith, it's really, there's different rental markets, right? Right. There's a rental market for wealthier people. Yes. Um, and then as you go down in each strata of the socioeconomic chain, it's a completely different market. Right? Right. You and I are not shopping for apartments at 1200 bucks an hour or $1,200 a month, um, in parts of town that, that probably wouldn't wanna live. Right. Um, and if you focus just on those low income parts of town and the supply there, there's a severe shortage. So, I mean, just in Dallas we're short, I think it was somewhere between 40 and 60,000 units . . That we are unders supplied. And so, um, you know, and part of the issue was over, over the course of Covid, rents have gone up in that strata by about 40%. . So people's incomes did not go up, but the cost of living went up. And it wasn't just housing. Right. It was gasoline and eggs.

George (15:47):

And did everything, did those, did the, the cost of of low income housing go up partly because of the government, uh, giving money, uh, out during Covid and it may being more available?

Mark Melton (15:59):

Uh, yeah. So during covid, we, we primed the economy by throwing $8 trillion into it. . So the money supply went way up. And what happens when you put more cash into the system is even at the bottom of the system, which is what we did a ot, ? We gave rent assistance and stimulus to poor people, which bailed them out, which was good. And then they got to spend that money, which bailed out the landlords and other businesses. And, but eventually that money makes its way back to the top of the pyramid . Um, to the people that are wealthy that don't need to, to further spend it on. Yeah. And so what happened was you had all of this cash, trillions of dollars accumulating at the top of the pyramid with nowhere to go. . And wealthy people don't just sit on cash, they invest it . And so with all this cash, all those dollars were competing for things to invest in. And one of the things that they all invested in was multi-family real estate . And so you had pricing on apartment complexes getting bid up just because there was too much cash. Yes. And so, you know, we saw apartment complexes that had sold for 30 or $40 million in 2019, sell again in 2022 for double that. . . And so if you are buying something for 80 million that was previously 40, the

George (17:10):

Rent's gotta

Mark Melton (17:10):

Go up, the rent's gotta go up to get the same return on investment. . And so this was the primary cause of, of inflation in the rental market. .

George (17:18):

Well, and it's extremely expensive to build low income and affordable housing . And it's, there's no real incentive for most real estate developers to do so, because at times, you know, they, there are rules where they need to provide a certain amount of . Uh, uh, of, of affordable housing within their project, but there's, there's a, a limit to what they can do in order to get the return on investment that makes it worth them. . Them being able to do that. So where does that money come from to address this need? Well, it seems to me the only other place it comes from is taxpayers. And we keep reducing our tax base, uh, and, and, and wanting to cut taxes when we have to invest in the things that are causing the bottleneck of problems in our communities.

Mark Melton (18:13):

Yeah. We, we, there, there are so many issues in the statement you just made to address, um, you know, just like highways in schools . Low income housing is something that the private markets cannot do . Efficiently. . And so therefore it is within the scope of government to step in and provide that. Otherwise you're gonna have a whole bunch of homeless people. . Because no one's building houses for them. Yes. Um, you know, so where does that money come from? Well, it's gotta come from the government. Right now, we've got so many issues with getting what money we do have into the hands of the developers to be able to build this property. Right. Um, that no one wants to do it. I mean, not only do you have to apply for these low income housing tax credits and then win them. Yes. Like, they're not automatic. Um, you now have to go deal with zoning issues in the cities . Um, there is a nimbyism, um, issue that you've gotta deal with where you're

George (19:07):

Nimby not in my backyard.

Mark Melton (19:08):

That's exactly where you want to go. Propose I'm gonna build a low or moderate income apartment complex, and everyone that lives around it goes Absolutely not. Yes. Not, not here. We don't want those poor people. I, I heard one guy in North Dallas on a recorded call, you know, say, I, I don't want to share my neighborhood with poor people. And so, and this is the mentality, so it's very difficult . Even if you can finance the project Yes. To actually get it done. .

George (19:36):

.

Mark Melton (19:36):

And a lot of those projects that are to build a hundred units that maybe five of 'em are low

George (19:41):

Income. Exactly. Exactly.

Mark Melton (19:42):

It's not like the whole building. Right. So, so we're, we're adding to our low income housing stock at a very slow rate. Yes. Um, and, and I'm afraid the only real solution is, you know, housing authorities are gonna need to be funded with a lot of money and they're just gonna have to go build them themselves. . Uh, and, and make it happen. I don't see another solution.

George (20:01):

Well, in the meantime, the possibility of the Dallas eviction advocacy center losing, uh, their, the legal aid money that you have been receiving from the county . Uh, is very possible. I mean . And so if we want to see this continue, um, then we need to contact our legislators . To begin with, to defeat these bills. And we also need to figure out how to support you. So, uh, where do they, where do people go, uh, to get to your website and figure out how to donate if they want to too?

Mark Melton (20:36):

So our website is, um, www.dallaseac.org . Um, and, and calling your legislators, your state reps and your state senators to, to oppose house bill 32 and Senate Bill 38 is extremely important because they do, um, or at least they are somewhat influenced by their constituents. . Um, and so that's a very helpful thing people can do.

George (21:00):

Well, mark, we call this program good god, because we are trying to do some good in the community . But we also think that God, uh, for those of us who are people of faith, uh, puts it in us to, uh, commit ourselves to a, a vision of the world that is more just, uh, more equitable and the like. And so part of the reason for these conversations is to inspire people to draw upon their faith and their values to do this kind of work. Uh, but this is not where you come from. Uh, we've had this co conversation from time to time, but I, I think it'd be really interesting for people to realize that you have a set of values that don't derive from a particular faith commitment

Mark Melton (21:51):

That That's right. So I always like to joke, I'm devoutly atheist, <laugh>. Um, and so, you know, and no one knows what that means. I'm not sure I know what that means, but Yeah. Uh, but yeah, you know, and I didn't grow up that way, so I wasn't just raised to have no faith. I grew up in a very, very religious home, in Tulsa, Oklahoma, um, non-denominational kind of megachurch sort of thing. . Um, and so until I was in my mid twenties, you know, I was a person of faith. Yes. Um, and, you know, the older I got, I, and, and we, we were talking earlier about, you know, this kind of mentality that if you're a good person and you put your faith in God, then you, you'll be blessed as Yes. Um, and I was raised to believe that . And when I was 21 years old, the company I worked for in Tulsa went out of business.

Mark Melton (22:42):

And, you know, I was married at the time, I had two young kids. And so they laid off all 5,000 employees and I found myself unemployed, lost my own home, and, um, packed up the kids and the wife and the car that, that didn't get repossessed. And we just drove to Dallas one day, kind of sight unseen, no place to live, no job, no plan. Well, no nothing. And, uh, I found myself thinking, what, what was the series of horrible decisions that I made Yes. To get here? 'cause I worked hard every day. Yes. Uh, I thought I was a smart person, had good work ethic . I had faith, and yet here I was with nothing. . You know, at the bottom of the barrel, um, you know, living in a 450 square foot apartment and you know, Vick Meadows . Um, I three month old son lived in the coat closet in the hallway, and, you know, and so it was tough times .

Mark Melton (23:36):

And, uh, so I, it just, it made me question a lot of things . And so, and, and I remember, I, I pulled down my Bible and I read it cover to cover over the course of a few days, and I was really struggling, and I got to the end and I just thought to myself, well, that's nonsense. Like, um, I, I just don't, I don't really believe that I was raised to believe it and I wanted to. And over the course of a few years, it was emotionally stressful, and I called every priest and rabbi and mom and anyone in the religious leadership community that I could get ahold of and begged them, like convince me that what I grew up believing is true. . And what I, if I'm honest with myself, really believe right now is not, and through those conversations, no one could convince me of anything. And so, um, and it took five or 10 years before I was even comfortable saying to myself, I am an atheist. . Uh, that was a very hard thing to get to . But, uh, you know, I got over it.

George (24:44):

Well, you, you got over it, but you didn't get over the concern that many of us who are motivated by faith, uh, engage in the world about . And, and you know, I, I find at times that, you know, while, while you and I do not share, uh, the same kind of convictions about faith, nonetheless, we find ourselves aligned on how we should live our lives and how we should, uh, you know, imagine a world that we can work toward.

Mark Melton (25:18):

No, I think, I think that's true. And, and my explanation of that is that, you know, faith is not inherently good. . It's also not inherently bad. . Um, and you have people of faith that are good people, and you have people of faith that are bad people. . Just like you have atheists that are good people, that atheists that are bad people. There's, there's little to no correlation between good and bad and faith and atheism. And so, um, you know, you can cite just as many examples where faith has been used for some pretty severely evil purposes. Yes. Um, so, so I don't, I don't fault anyone for, you know, relying on their own faith as a reason to do something good. . Uh, I don't think it matters. . Um, you know, I I I've always thought if, if you really need the idea of a deity that is gonna punish you, if you don't do good things, how good are you? Like, I don't feel like I'm under threat . To make decisions about, you know, my moral compass . Um, I do it because I feel empathy for, for the people around me. And I, I want to help them. And that doesn't come from a place of, you know, a reward in the afterlife or . You know, trying to do the, the good work because God wants me to . Um, and I know a lot of people of faith that live their lives and never do anything good for anybody. So

George (26:42):

Well, whatever the motivation, uh, the call to act on behalf of humanity and for what is good and just is something we should all share. And I would hope that, uh, our audience would celebrate the fact that, uh, even though we are coming from a faith perspective in our organization and on this podcast, uh, we, we can honor and celebrate, uh, differences of belief or unbelief and find ways to work together, uh, with respect and dignity at the same time. And Mark, you are an example of that. And we are truly grateful for what you do in our community and, uh, bless you for it. Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you for being on. Good, God. Happy. Terrific. Alright. Thank you. You bet.