Dr. Brian Williams, the trauma surgeon on-call for the 2016 police shooting in Dallas

Dr. Brian Williams was a surgeon on call at Parkland Hospital on July 7, 2016 and operated on the victims of the Dallas police shooting that launched the Back the Blue campaign. Hear how that night and its trauma, combined with the tragedies of the previous two days--the deaths of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile--positioned him to be a spokesperson and activist for racial justice. 

George Mason:
Imagine being the trauma surgeon at Parkland Hospital on the night of the Dallas police shootings in July 7th, 2016. How would that change you? We'll be talking with Dr. Brian Williams about just that, on Good God, coming up. 

George Mason:
Hello. I'm George Mason, host of Good God, conversations that matter about faith and public life. I'm thrilled to be able to welcome to the program today Dr. Brian Williams. Brian, thank you for coming.

Brian Williams:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). I'm honored to be here. Thank you very much. 

George Mason:
Well, Brian, I think the easiest way probably for me to introduce you to our audience at this point is just to remember back to July 7th, 2016. As FDR said back at the time of the bombing of Pearl Harbor, it was a day that will live in infamy in Dallas, Texas, because it was the day that we experienced the terrible shootings of the Dallas police officers. You had a very special role on that day, because you were a trauma surgeon at Parkland Hospital, a place where John F. Kennedy had gone just 53 years earlier, and you were right in the midst of that, with your hands in the middle of blood and guts, in a way that was life transforming for you, and saving lives and some lost. Tell us about what that was like for you that day.

Brian Williams:
Yeah. On July 7th, 2016, that day of the shooting, that's a day that for me, it's one of the worst nights of my professional career. It's also a transforming night, as far as me personally and spiritually. I still think about it every day, and I recognize... I still think about those families that have been impacted, and the police officers and all their colleagues. This one event impacted, had ripple effects in the lives of so many people. 

Brian Williams:
My role as a trauma surgeon at the hospital where I work, it's so busy that there's always a trauma surgeon in the hospital, 24/7. This was a night that I was there. Initially, that night I was not supposed to work, but changed the shift with one of my other colleagues, and then this tragedy occurred, which I had no expectation was going to happen. But for me, it actually occurred at a time in my life when I was thinking about a number of other things. And we talk about July 7th, but I think there's a point to remember that on July 6th, that was the night of Philando Castile's death in Minnesota.

George Mason:
Right. 

Brian Williams:
And on July 5th was Alton Sterling in Baton Rouge.

George Mason:
Right.

Brian Williams:
So, we had 72 hours of death and loss, and a lot of rhetoric around race and violence and policing in this country. And July 7th, that protest was an outgrowth of that event. I was also thinking about my role as a trauma surgeon who routinely sees the end result of gun violence, and my role as an African-American man.

George Mason:
Disproportionately African-American.

Brian Williams:
Exactly. The victims, and also my role as an African-American male in this role, and as a citizen of this country. So, these were many of the things that I was ruminating on at that point of my life, when this tragedy occurred. And that event brought together a lot of those elements, in a fashion that was... I mean, it became a flash point for the country.

George Mason:
Yes. 

Brian Williams:
That night when it happened, a lot of attention is focused on me, but it's funny. But I'm part of a team of nurses and students and residents and other doctors, but I'm the only black trauma surgeon on the faculty, so I had a perspective about this event that no one else had going into it and after it. That was something that I could not ignore, at the end of all this.

George Mason:
You know. You raise that, and it strikes me that immediately in the aftermath of all of that, we easily forgot about Alton Sterling and Philando Castro, and the reason for the march to begin with.

Brian Williams:
Correct. 

George Mason:
Peaceful protest, which incidentally, the Dallas police did a beautiful job of actually helping the protestors, encouraging them, walking alongside, helping keep them safe, and were not angry about their protest. They were acting responsibly. And there's a vulnerability in everything we do, but it occurred to me that all of the sudden, Back the Blue signs show up in all these yards in my neighborhood. Support the police, Back the Blue, this is what has to happen, look at the trauma that happened. And I see the same thing happening with the national anthem protests now. You know, the NFL. Instead of asking, "What is the cause of this kneeling and these protests," let's listen and say, "Why would someone put their career on the line for this, and make themselves so vulnerable?" Instead, we have a tendency to make it always about law and order, and about defending only one party that's established in this whole struggle. When I don't mind if you put a Back the Blue sign, but then a Black Lives Matter sign ought to be right next to it in your yard at the same time, if we really want to heal the community. 

Brian Williams:
And that's something I still struggle with now, is that there is this expectation that it's a binary decision.

George Mason:
Exactly.

Brian Williams:
You have to choose a side. It's either/or. And it's impossible to do that, without exploring the history of how we got to this point that we are now. Something I try to make very clear is I'm not anti-police. I'm pro-police.

George Mason:
Absolutely.

Brian Williams:
But we could not deny that the racial undertones of this event contributed to the tragedy, and that goes back generations. It didn't just happen out of a vacuum. There is a lot of history that we need to reckon with as a society, to explain why this happens. Not to justify it, but we need to do this in order to move forward towards a positive, progressive future.

George Mason:
Well, we'll get to what you're doing now, and how transformational that was to you, this event, in terms of your own sense of vocation, and how you'll pursue that in the years ahead, which is still evolving.

Brian Williams:
Right.

George Mason:
But at that moment, I heard you say in a public meeting last year that there was a kind of change that happened to you that night, where you realized... You started connecting the dots in your own story, and realized that in a way, you had felt somewhat insulated from the identification, because you're a medical professional, you're a surgeon, you attended great schools. You made it, in some sense.

Brian Williams:
Right.

George Mason:
But there was an uneasiness that was percolating in you, and this crystallized that. 

Brian Williams:
Yes. I've been to these great schools, went to medical school, served in the military, and I felt that I've checked all the boxes that American society expects of anyone. And if you do that, to say, "Okay, you're a success." 

George Mason:
Right.

Brian Williams:
However, I have always felt, and still feel, that there is an asterisk by all that, because I'm an African-American male. And in reality, I don't walk around in my spare time with doctor painted on my forehead, or Air Force veteran. There are still people that will, no matter what I've done, will assume that I am inferior or suspicious or a threat, based on the color of my skin. That's just the reality of what it is in this country. So, my option is to complain about that all the time, or move forward and try to spread positivity, but still challenge people to think about why is that? That this is not okay, and the history of our country that's brought us to this point where we're still now.

George Mason:
Yeah, it's really incredible to think about a person of your accomplishments, and yet because of the color of your skin, you can still stand outside your apartment, if I recall, getting ready to go to the airport or something-

Brian Williams:
Right.

George Mason:
... and waiting for a ride, and be stopped by the police and harassed. Tell that story. I mean, I think it's... See, I think a lot of us think that if black people were just polite to the police, and did what white people do, just if we all had the same attitudes, and didn't get confrontational, then everything would be okay. But that's not really the way it works, is it? I mean, partly true. Partly true, but-

Brian Williams:
Well, we've seen several incidents of that over the last year, where that which you just described is true. What happened to me, this was probably about six years ago, where I was standing outside of my apartment complex waiting for a ride to the airport, and the police came up to question me about why I was there. I later learned they came there because someone called in a report to the police, and said that there was a bald man acting suspiciously. That was the genesis of that encounter. But I knew during that encounter not to mouth off, not to move quickly. I knew I had to make them feel safe, despite the fear I had. Which is, that's a statement about where we are in this country. That I was just standing there. Someone called. The police responded. It ended fine. I ended up fine as far as my physical well-being, but psychologically, that has an impact on you. And there are people like me, that this happens to them all the time. I think Castile had a couple dozen times that this happened to him, so you can't minimize the psychological effect that that has on people of color.

George Mason:
Yes. Yeah. Well, I mean, being able to own those stories, and to have people listen beyond the black community that knows and experiences this all the time, I think having a forum where you're now listened to, where because of your role in the Dallas shootings and all of that, suddenly you're a celebrity, a local celebrity. People are actually listening to this aspect of your story, too. There is a kind of backhanded blessing to being able to now have a platform, isn't it?

Brian Williams:
Yes. However-

George Mason:
Go on.

Brian Williams:
... it is very uncomfortable for me. I've grown to accept it. But for me, a very private person, speaking out on issues of social equity and racial injustice, and sharing my own personal story, just being vulnerable like that, is not something that I've ever considered to be... That I've ever been comfortable doing, or aspired to do.

George Mason:
Sure.

Brian Williams:
And even in the beginning, after all this happened, I was very reluctant to still step into that space. But I've had a lot of help from my wife. My wife, she's in the background of all this, as a silent source of support and encouragement in getting me out there. So, I'm here. I'm walking this path. I cannot say that I'm fully comfortable in my skin, but I'm comfortable accepting that I'm uncomfortable doing it, and I recognize the importance of doing this. 

George Mason:
You know, what I'd like to do following the break we're going to take in just a moment is pursue that a little more. Because what you're expressing is the same thing every prophet in the Bible said, when called upon to speak and act in the name of God, and in the name of justice. That is, "I don't want to do this."

Brian Williams:
Right, right.

George Mason:
There is not a single prophet who's said, "I really think God has raised me up to be a voice, and I'm eager to do that." No. Every one of them had the sense, "Not me, Lord. Please, not me." So I want to talk a little more about this sense of duty, this sense of call, and the faith that also you draw upon in that. When we come back from the break, we'll talk a little more about that.

Brian Williams:
Thank you. 

Speaker 3:
Faith Forward Dallas at Thanksgiving Square is a broad and diverse coalition of Dallas's faith leaders, dedicated to service, hope, and a shared vision for North Texas. Faith Forward Dallas creates and supports a community of respect and compassion for all, sharing in the mission of the Thanksgiving Foundation to heal divisions and enhance mutual understanding. 

George Mason:
We're back with Brian Williams, Dr. Williams. We're so grateful to have you with us. We were talking just before the break about how in some sense, you are reluctant to talk about yourself, and to take your experience and become more of a public person as a result of this experience of what happened to you and with you in response to the Dallas police shootings. But you're now answering that call. It's not an easy thing to do. Tell us about your own personal faith, and how that plays into it. How did you grow up, and how has that developed over time?

Brian Williams:
Well, I grew up... I'm a military brat, and that is enough for a lot of people, when you just say that, "military brat." But my father was career Air Force, so our family, we moved every couple of years around the country and around the world. That experience, I think it was very important, which I didn't appreciate when I was younger. But being exposed to different parts of the country, and all the regional differences within our own country, traveling across and around the world, and seeing other cultures, but also being around other military kids and parents that were doing the exact same thing. 

Brian Williams:
So, it just formed my worldview of inclusivity. We all come from different backgrounds, but this is what makes us special. That was something that was ingrained in me from a young age. I can say that looking back now, but at the time, didn't recognize how important that was. Now, by this point, as far as my faith, we grew up... I was raised Protestant, nondenominational Protestant. This is because on the bases-

George Mason:
If you're on the base-

Brian Williams:
... there's one church.

George Mason:
You can be Protestant, you can be Catholic, you can be Jewish.

Brian Williams:
Exactly.

George Mason:
Right, right.

Brian Williams:
The Protestants go to church at the same time, clean it up, Catholics. You know, it was just how it worked. So, that's how I grew up. By probably middle school, early high school is when I started drifting away from religion. At some point I said, "I am not going to church anymore." I just stopped going to church. And it happened at a time when I was coming into my own, and recognizing what it meant to be a black male, and looking back at the religious teachings, I've learned these were all white male authoritarian figures. Every significant figure in the studies, I received in Bibles. They were white. So, that was my question. Like, where does someone like me fit into this story?

George Mason:
Yes.

Brian Williams:
And is there any space for me here?

George Mason:
Right.

Brian Williams:
And ultimately, I decided there is none. They're not talking to me, so why should I spend time learning this religion that excludes me from the story, as far as the positive aspects? That was me in my preteen, teenage mind. So, I just stopped going to church. And I mean decades. I would drift back and say, "Let me try this out," and I sought all different religions, and nothing really grabbed me. Did a lot of reading, some books like Karen Armstrong's Holy War, and I think it's Tom Friedman's From Beirut to Jerusalem.

George Mason:
Good book.

Brian Williams:
So, reading these books, and I'm like, "Man, religion is used a lot to divide people, and to justify death and destruction." I just couldn't bring myself back into it. But over the last few years, I started just kind of slowly drifting back into it. You know, having a daughter helped.

George Mason:
It does help. Yup.

Brian Williams:
But still, my programming didn't allow me to embrace it, or to jump back into it. Even as I sit here now, I can't say that I fully embraced it, but I'm less resistant to it. I can say God without it getting stuck in my throat.

George Mason:
Yeah. Well, I mean, it's understandable for so many reasons. And then you're also a man of science, too. 

Brian Williams:
Right.

George Mason:
So, all of these things. We've not always been at our best in the religious world in accepting science, and being... You know, the word religion actually has kind of an anatomical root. Religiere means the ligaments, to bind the ligaments back together after they've been broken.

Brian Williams:
Right. 

George Mason:
I mean, you know. This is what you do, right?

Brian Williams:
Right.

George Mason:
And so, religion is supposed to heal what's broken in our society, and yet we keep being the ones to break the ligaments. 

Brian Williams:
Right.

George Mason:
The ties that bind us. So, we're our own worst enemy in that respect. But even people who've wrestled with a formal religion, at times in their journey like yours, there is an awareness that, "There must be some meaningfulness to my life, some purpose, some driving force, that why was I in this place? Why have my life experiences all been leading to this moment, where I'm beginning... All these things are coming together for me in some way." That seems to be the work of some spirit at work in the world, that people of religion testify to over time.

Brian Williams:
Right. Yeah, I freely talk about my spirituality, but I still have trouble saying religion. You know? It's hard to overcome that.

George Mason:
Right.

Brian Williams:
But I no longer feel like my analytical side of my brain is competing with the spiritual side. I like numbers and straight lines, and everything in the box, and this forces me to step outside that.

George Mason:
Right.

Brian Williams:
Actually, I feel like I'm walking this path of spirituality, and I'm comfortable in talking about that, and I don't feel like I have to know the answers, and I don't feel like I have to know where it's going. I don't feel like I have to really explain myself clearly to anybody about it, but I can tell you, I now feel comfortable being inside of a church. Before, I felt I was an imposter, and didn't belong there. 

George Mason:
What do you think is the change? What's happened to begin to open that up a little bit? 

Brian Williams:
My wife has been very helpful. We talk about this a lot. Reading a lot of books about spirituality and religion, and these books allowed me to not feel like I had to commit myself to dogmatic ideals and practices, and just say, "No. This is." And then when I see my daughter every day, just look at her, I'm like, she's a miracle. She can drive me to insanity every now and then, but she's definitely a miracle. So, how is this all happening?

Brian Williams:
Then it goes back to July 7th. That night and the aftermath, I feel that was the moment where I'm put in a situation where, "Okay. You need to decide what it is you're going to do, because you've really been running from all these issues for your entire life, yet you've been prepared for this."

George Mason:
Right.

Brian Williams:
"So, what are you going to do going forward? What do you want your contribution to humanity to be? And this is an important topic that's not going away, so you need to step into the arena, or you can pretend like it didn't happen. Put it in this box, and go on with your life." 

George Mason:
How do you feel you've been received, as you've begun to open up and be more of an advocate and spokesperson for racial justice?

Brian Williams:
I would say most of it is positive. I've received incredible feedback from people that surprised me, either face to face, I've received letters from around the world, random emails from folks. Because my email, you can find me online, because I work for the university, the hospital. So, the things that people have written and said to me are very moving. It's one of the things that fuels me to continue to do this, because I recognize, okay, I'm having impact on at least a few people as I move forward. 

Brian Williams:
There is also a subset of negativity. I've been told or written that I should not be allowed to care for white people, because of what they've heard me say. I should not be allowed to care for police officers. There has been people of color that have said that they were glad that I let these officers die, as if I did this on purpose.

George Mason:
Wow.

Brian Williams:
You know? And that's...

George Mason:
It's hurtful.

Brian Williams:
It's just painful. I mean, thinking about that night is difficult. As you can see now, just trying to stay focused. Because I got into medicine about serving humanity. It's about being a healer. And the thought that I would not want someone to have a good outcome because of the color of their skin or their profession, is just... It's antithetical to who I am in my core. 

George Mason:
Exactly, yeah. And when you are a healer at your core, it doesn't stop just with what happens in an operating room, does it?

Brian Williams:
No.

George Mason:
It's about healing the human spirit, as well. And the thing that doctors have told me over the years, and as a minister I've witnessed also, is just the powerful psychosomatic aspect, the connection of healing between how we think... Not only how we feel, but how we feel about how we feel.

Brian Williams:
Right.

George Mason:
That is to say, the spirit has an important role in the body's healing, doesn't it? And that's certainly true of society as well. To stop at just the physical isn't really to be a healer.

Brian Williams:
Right. And it's forced me to at least work on being more intentional about everything I do, every interaction. I'm not saying I'm perfect at it, but I do try to be intentional about every interaction I have every day. When I don't do well, I think about that afterwards, and I ruminate on that. I'm like, "I could have done this differently."

George Mason:
Right. So, when you look back on July 7th, 2016, and what has happened in Dallas since then, do you think we've gone back to sleep, or are we more awake as a result of that? 

Brian Williams:
So, since July 7th, speaking for Dallas, it has changed my relationship with the city. I moved here eight years ago. Not a Dallas native. So, I was here working. I had my circle of friends. But now I have immersed myself more into the city of Dallas, and learned to interact with other groups of people that want to make this city better. So, I will say that there is pockets of awakening that are occurring within Dallas, but I still think there's a lot of work that still needs to be done. And that's not unique to Dallas.

George Mason:
No.

Brian Williams:
Any city across the country, they're dealing with these same issues. And it's easy to look the other way, and pretend it's not a problem, and let it fester, but right now we're in a period of relative calm, and this is the time to be intentional about what we do. 

George Mason:
Exactly. Wow. Well, I'm grateful for your willingness to answer that still, small voice within you that says, "This is what I'm meant for right now, and this is what I have to do." Thank you for being an agent of healing, not only in an operating room, but also in a city. We pray for you, and want to be your partner in all of this. It's really great to have you on Good God, and we appreciate your coming, sharing your story.

Brian Williams:
Thank you very much for having me. I enjoyed it.

George Mason:
Terrific. Thank you, Brian.

Brian Williams:
Thanks.

George Mason:
Great.

Speaker 4:
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