Chet Edwards: How "love thy neighbor" led him into politics

Chet Edwards is a former US representative (D) serving in TX from 1983-2011.

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George Mason:
Welcome to Good God, conversations that matter about faith and public life. I'm your host George Mason, and as we conclude this series on good politics, I couldn't be happier than to introduce to you our final guest which is, who is Chet Edwards, Congressman Chet Edwards of Texas who served for five terms in Congress and, before that, two terms in the State Senate. Chet, we are so thankful that you could be with us.

Chet Edwards:
George, thanks very much. It's great to be with you.

George Mason:
Right. So Chet, while you are a Democrat and served as such, you really served at a time when it wasn't quite as harsh as we are going through right now in terms of the strictness of the partisan lines. In fact, I think most people would say you had a reputation as a person who wasn't easily pigeonholed. You could work with all kinds of people. Can we just be nostalgic for a minute and could you tell us more? I mean you went to A&M and studied under Phil Graham, right? Yet, a Democrat in serving alongside these people.

Chet Edwards:
Well in fact in my last six years in Congress, I was a House Democrat that represented the most Republican district in America represented by a Democrat. Most Republican districts were more Republican than mine. George, we've gone through ups and downs in our cycles of partisanship in America. John Adams and Thomas Jefferson said things about each other in the presidential election of 1800 that you couldn't even legally print in a newspaper today, but I will tell you it saddens me that things are so partisan, not just in Washington, DC but in our neighborhoods in our home communities. I think for democracy to survive, and it will, but for it to survive, we ought to have compromise and compromise requires respect of others. Back in the 1980s and 1990s when I served in the Texas Senate and US House, you could differ on issues without having to hate someone.

George Mason:
Yeah.

Chet Edwards:
I think we need to ... I don't want to turn the historic clock back on everything. I'm glad we live in a world of greater civil rights than we had decades ago, but I wish we could turn the clock forward and bring back respect and bipartisanship in our political arena.

George Mason:
I know you've chronicled a little bit that it has been ups and downs over time, but a lot of people are trying to put their finger on when did things really change. At least I know anecdotally there was one time in particular when you were in Congress when there was a kind of structural attempt to change the way people worked together. Can you tell us more about that?

Chet Edwards:
Well I was elected to Congress in 1990 and at that point, Democrats controlled, had majority control of the House for over four decades. Newt Gingrich was a back venture Republican and he had a vision and it was a brilliant political vision. The way Republicans could take back over majority in the House was to tear down the House, to destroy its reputation. They even put together as a Congressman a vocabulary list to use when you're talking about Democrats, unpatriotic, and that's probably one of the kinder adjectives that he used. I don't blame Newt Gingrich for all the coarseness of not just our politics but our society, our culture today, but I do think he really was the forerunner of the kind of mean-spirited politics we see today. Whether one's conservative or liberal isn't important to me. I can respect everyone. I think leadership in Washington does matter and frankly, I think President Trump's tone of bullying people or attacking them, dividing them, creating fear among different groups, I think that exacerbated the already harsh partisan culture that we were all living in.

George Mason:
Then you had freshman congressmen who came in for orientation and things changed in terms of how that took place too, right?

Chet Edwards:
Well exactly. In 1990 before I was sworn in, we went to Boston and Harvard University, had Democrats and Republicans and our spouses together. We all got to know each other's people before we started casting votes against each other. For the 20 years I served in the US House, George, I always felt a special bond to those Republicans. We might differ greatly on issues, but we wouldn't go to the floor and attack each other personally and we would look for common ground rather than looking for ways to divide us. So yes, I think when Newt Gingrich ended that program where we got to know each other as people before we became political elected officials in Congress, I think that really did begin serious change in the tone of respect for people in the other party.

George Mason:
Right. So forgive me. I got it wrong. You were a 10-term congressman, right?

Chet Edwards:
Yes.

George Mason:
20 years.

Chet Edwards:
That's right.

George Mason:
And two terms as senator here in Texas?

Chet Edwards:
That's correct.

George Mason:
Eight years. So we have also issues now in Texas and you served in the Senate at that time. We find ourselves increasingly in a deeply partisan state also. A lot of that has to do with, again, instead of just getting the work done and trying to find common cause, it really seems to be more and more, Chet, focused on how to win a primary rather than how to represent everyone in your state. I think there's a lot of conversation right now around voter suppression or voter integrity depending upon-

Chet Edwards:
Right.

George Mason:
... where you're at, but gerrymandered districts are really a big part of this struggle too, aren't they? I mean we have that coming up this fall in special session.

Chet Edwards:
I think there are two real causes, core causes of the political divisiveness we see today at the state and federal level. One is congressional redistricting. If you draw a map and you have 70% Democratic district or 70% Republican district, you not only don't have reason to compromise. You're actually penalized if you cross the party line and work out compromises with the other party. The second, and I think this is really maybe the fundamental, major cause of our political division and disrespect in America today, is our news sources have changed. It used to be Walter Cronkite, CBS, ABC, NBC provided the primary source of TV political news. They had to appeal to Democrats and Republicans if they were going to gain 33% market share, but fast forward to today and we've got cable shows if you have 5% market share, far right or far left or special interest oriented, then you can make millions of dollars as a political commentator. So what I call the [siloing 00:07:41] of news-

George Mason:
Yeah.

Chet Edwards:
... has led to us becoming very divided. The conventional wisdom is that the solution to our divisions, our politics, our political divisions is to start with new leadership. That matters at the state and federal level, but I think we need to remember the first three words of the Constitution, "We the people." I think we have to have a faith that each one of us can make a positive difference in our society and in our politics. So I think the return of respect and empathy and humility in our political system won't begin in Washington unless it begins with we the people and we start treating our neighbors who think differently from us with respect and with empathy.

George Mason:
When you talk about treating our neighbors with respect and empathy, that brings us a very religious point. I mean love your neighbor as yourself is-

Chet Edwards:
Right.

George Mason:
... fundamental through all of our religious traditions. One of the things we talk about on these Good God podcasts is this connection of where we bring our faith to work. How does faith impact the way we live in the world? So I think you began to talk about that a bit just in that last answer, but tell us more about how your vision of the world and your personal faith came together in your political life.

Chet Edwards:
George, it was my personal faith. I was raised as a Methodist and been married for 28 years to a Baptist preacher's daughter. It was my faith that convinced me that loving thy neighbor as thyself isn't a command of good feelings. It's a command to action.

George Mason:
Ah.

Chet Edwards:
So I chose public service as one of many career paths that people could pursue to try to make a difference for my neighbor. I believe greatly the principle, the constitutional principle of separation of church and state, but people misunderstand that concept. It doesn't mean keeping people of faith out of government. It does mean keeping government out of our faith. I think where we have to be careful is former Senator Sam Nunn said at the National Prayer Breakfast in the 1990s just when he was retiring something that I've never forgotten. He said, "As I leave office, I struggle with what values of my faith do I have a right to turn into or what sins according to my faith that I have the right to turn into crimes using the power of government." I think it's a profound question.

George Mason:
Yeah.

Chet Edwards:
So I would just say that faith has been instrumental in my going into public service and in my values in public service, but I tried to draw the line and be careful not to use government, the power of government and laws to force my faith on someone of a different faith or of no faith.

George Mason:
Well this, I think, gets to one of the questions about where we find our way forward because sometimes when we're dealing with this right now, we're dealing often with a very conservative view of the Christian faith that has gotten united with nationalism. So Christian nationalism has really raised its head.

Chet Edwards:
Yes.

George Mason:
There's a kind of failure to recognize that faith has to be separated from our love of country even if our faith brings us to serve it, but then there are people on the other side who react so strongly against that that then they want to keep all of faith out of public life also. So how do we figure out, Chet, what is that appropriate line where our faith is being brought to bear in order that the common good can be achieved in our public life, and yet not imposed in such a way that it actually violates our sort of covenant with one another as Americans?

Chet Edwards:
It's a profound question, George, and I don't have a simple answer. My philosophy and my faith just felt the primary role of government in our private enterprise system was to give every child a fair chance to reach his or her highest God-given potential. I think we can look for the common bonds and values of all faiths and find the common bond of loving thy neighbor. It may be perhaps we use different words, but loving thy neighbor as thyself, caring for others. I think if we could use those common bonds to guide our legislative processes, but within those bonds, respect that some people have honest differences of opinion on how far the government's role should go in helping-

George Mason:
We've always had that struggle, haven't we? I mean that's from the very beginning.

Chet Edwards:
Absolutely. There's no simple answer and I just think humility and empathy would go a long way in improving our political system and frankly our culture and how we get along with neighbors. I realized a long time ago I can't understand calculus or black holes in outer space or the concept of infinity. So when it comes to politics, why should I be so arrogant to think that my position is always right and somebody else's position is wrong. So that's where I developed my humility in politics and from that comes a respect for others and others' empathy. I just don't think we try to empathize with each other and if we could do that, we could find common bonds. Quality of opportunity, giving every child a chance to reach his or her highest God-given potential, I think those are fundamental values that could bring us together, conservative, moderates, and liberals, and then have our honest differences on specific policies.

George Mason:
You talk about empathy and I think you were very close with the late John Lewis with whom you served in Congress. I think he really epitomized a lot the things you're talking about. There's a bill before Congress now-

Chet Edwards:
Yes.

George Mason:
... in his name and I wonder if you could talk a little bit about his influence on your understanding of public service.

Chet Edwards:
Of the thousands of people that I served with at the state and federal level, I respect John Lewis more than any other. In his early 20s, he was leading the Civil Rights Movement along with Dr. King and four others of the Big Six of the Civil Rights Movement. John was nearly killed in Selma for leading the march for fundamental Voting Rights Act in 1865. He was in prison more than 40 times, but in all the years we worked so closely together, I never felt one ounce of hatred or resentment from John. He once hugged a man who came into office with his 11-year-old grandson under his arm and said, "I want to ask for your forgiveness, Congressman Lewis. I nearly beat you to death in Selma." John, instead of being anger, he grabbed the grandfather, hugged him, and said, "You're my brother and I love you." I'm still moved when I think about the lesson that taught that 11-year-old grandchild.

Chet Edwards:
John was passionate about civil rights and about the values of equality for all, but he was never disrespectful to others and never let hatred or bitterness seep into his body, mind, or soul. If we could use John Lewis as a role model of Christian love and action, we'd be a better country, and he did say one of the untold secrets of the Civil Rights Movement was that its ultimate success was it was built around a model of Christian love. They did not return hate with hate.

George Mason:
Right.

Chet Edwards:
They returned hate with love and by doing that, they won over Americans to the cause of civil rights in the '50s and '60s.

George Mason:
When I think about John Lewis, Chet, the other things that comes to mind is that John Lewis didn't get to be John Lewis later in life by planning when he was in his 20s to be that. He could not have crossed the bridge there in Selma and put himself in position to be beaten and then put in prison numerous times and in those moments thought to himself, "That's okay. This is all part of a great big strategy that's going to get me in Congress someday," and [inaudible 00:16:45] by others. I mean I think that's part of the struggle now that people, young people need to pay attention to the fact that you can only do what's right in front of you and you have to sort of leave the rest of history and your legacy to God and whatever opportunity may come, but it's about character in the moment, isn't it?

Chet Edwards:
George, I'm so glad you mentioned that. I think one of the most inspiring speeches I've ever read is Robert Kennedy's 1996 speech in apartheid South Africa where he said, "Human history is shaped by countless acts of courage and belief." His point to that audience and to you and me and to young people, especially to young people today, is that each of us has a God-given gift to make a difference and we have a moral and religious obligation in my faith to do so. Specific example that I saw of this two years ago, an African-American coed was accosted by four white Baylor male students who told her she didn't belong there because of the color of her skin. The next morning as she walked out of her first class of that day, hundreds of Baylor students surrounded her and walked her to her next class as a show of respect. They didn't wait for an administrator to tell them to do it. They just felt that moral, religious motivation to be an agent of change.

Chet Edwards:
They made the world a better place when they did that. Maybe they won't make it in the history books for that, but they certainly made a difference in this world. So we have to have this belief, you're right, that each of us has been given this precious ability to impact people's lives in a positive way and we just have to understand we can make a difference and do it and do it respectfully.

George Mason:
You mention Baylor. You and I, neither one of us went to Baylor or graduated from Baylor, but we've both sort of been adopted by the alumni-

Chet Edwards:
Yes.

George Mason:
... I think. Of course, you served Waco and lived there and everything so you have more of a sense of Baylor than even I do, although as a Baptist preacher, I have quite a bit, but there is a sense in which Baylor is almost a crucible in which a lot of these things are being worked out now. They're having a tough time, but to me, it's not just a reflection of the Baylor culture. It's a reflection of the larger culture and wrestling with all these contemporary issues and how they find their way as institutions.

Chet Edwards:
It is and I know the LGBTQ issue and officially recognizing student organizations for those students is a challenging issue, it won't be easy to go through, but I just think for those of us that are people of faith, if we begin with the belief that we're all God's children, that we have a right to have different viewpoints and different religious respectives, but that we're all God's children, if we begin ... If step one is loving our neighbors as thyself, respecting we're all God's children, then we can work through these issues even when they're honest differences of opinion. For the secular community and for those that don't have faith in my Democratic party on the far left, sometimes I think they've shown disrespect to people of faith. So even as I criticize the far right for trying to push Christian nationalism which I think brings Christianity down to a lower level of politics and is somewhat blasphemous, I would challenge my Democratic friends on the progressive and far left side to have respect for people of faith and-

George Mason:
Right.

Chet Edwards:
... whatever their views are if they're genuinely held, they should respect them. If we could all begin with that perspective, I think we can work through these problems.

George Mason:
Right or wrong, there is a feeling among people on the right that those on the progressive left, the languages look down on us-

Chet Edwards:
Yes.

George Mason:
... that they have a sense of elitism about them and a kind of educated privilege and don't value the culture and way of life of their fellow citizens who differ from them. I think we can talk all we want structurally about the media and about voting rights and about different visions of America, but when you get right down to that place of interaction, of one person to another, it really does come down to that respect, doesn't it, that sense of whether you really ... Somebody who is standing in front of you really believes that they matter to you.

Chet Edwards:
I never forget the advice of a four-star Army general who said, "Congressman, before the soldiers care what I say to them, they have to know I care about them."

George Mason:
Nice.

Chet Edwards:
I think whether we come from the far right, the far left, people of faith or not, if we could begin with respect and empathy, then I just think we can ... Our democracy will do well. I'm confident about the longterm future of our democracy. We will work through these divisive times. We survived the horrible atrocity of slavery, sometimes even in the name of religion, for well over a century, segregation, we're still fighting civil rights, but I would say I don't want to turn America back to the old days before civil rights, before women's rights.

George Mason:
Right.

Chet Edwards:
So I think America, we go two steps forward and one step back, sometimes three steps forward and four steps back, but longterm, I think the goodness of the American people will prevail.

George Mason:
Well I hope you're right. I will say that that is a hopeful and optimistic view of things that is sort of being challenged today, it seems to be-

Chet Edwards:
I agree.

George Mason:
... by those who think that the steps being taken by the parties in power at the state level and prior to that with the previous administration represented existential threat to democracy-

Chet Edwards:
Yes.

George Mason:
... that if we continue in this path of gerrymandered districts that enfranchise one party for 10 years at a time essentially and if we limit the voting rights of everyone, especially when these voting rights bills-

Chet Edwards:
Right.

George Mason:
... in states all over America seeming clearly to be targeted toward suppressing vote of people of color especially. This represents a sense of existential despair among people about democracy, but I hear in your voice that notwithstanding all of those things, you think we'll find a way through it and we'll rise.

Chet Edwards:
George, I do. I don't minimize the challenges. I think the January 6th attacks on our capital and President Trump not accepting the peaceful transition of power, one of the hallmarks of our democracy and any democracy, those are serious challenges to our democracy and I do not diminish that. Rolling back the Civil Rights Act of 1965, my goodness, all these years later, those are serious threats and I want to be clear I don't minimize the seriousness of them, but I go back to John Lewis. I'd sit down with John in the Democratic cloakroom just off the House floor during the series of votes or late-night meetings and I'd say, "John, what do you say to young people when you see the discrimination that's occurring all these years after you fought for civil rights in the '50s and '60s?"

Chet Edwards:
He said, "Chet, I'd say to every young person that they have to understand how far forward we've come and not to be discouraged. Don't become a cynic and tune out of the system. You've got to be grateful for the progress we've made, but keep fighting for that cause because we have a long way to go. But don't forget we've come a long way." So once again, I'd use John Lewis as my inspiration and I think if John could go through his life as an African-American at a time when he was nearly beaten to death because of the color of his skin-

George Mason:
Right.

Chet Edwards:
... when we [inaudible 00:25:45] for civil rights, if he could go through that and not become cynical about our country or its future, then surely it should be far easier for me to not lose faith in our country and to have faith in its future. How we get to that promised land, I'm not quite sure. I'm not that smart, but I think our democracy will eventually work. Longterm, I believe in the American people.

George Mason:
Well as we wrap up, I just want to ask one more thing of you then, Chet. I was in a group the other day and someone said that she was talking to a neighbor and that neighbor said, "I don't do politics." This politician said, "Well honey, if you don't do politics, politics will do you." So I think there's some truth to that, but what I want to ask you is if you had this moment to speak to young people, well to people of any age and say, "Yes, I know it's broken. Yes, I know there's dirty politics. Yes, I know it feels acrimonious today and all of that," how do they get involved? It feels like there's a disconnect between the ordinary person and people in office and in the political process. They don't know. They're afraid of how to participate. What would you tell people? "Here are some things you can do."

Chet Edwards:
I would say, one, to young people, believe that you can make a difference. I genuinely deeply believe that. Number two, I think John Lewis and I would say to them that you have social tools as young people today through the power of social media to create a movement that the civil rights leaders in the '50s and '60s could only dream about. You don't have to own a newspaper or television station to have your voice heard. So there's great opportunity for young people to make a difference. If they will believe that, just as those Baylor students believed they could make a difference-

George Mason:
Yeah.

Chet Edwards:
... by escorting that student to the next class, they will make a difference and they'll live a life of meaning if they do that.

George Mason:
I also think that if you can go down to the courthouse, you can become a volunteer deputy, voter registrar, and you can walk door-to-door just asking people to register to vote. Then all of that turns into, "Hey, I can do something," right?

Chet Edwards:
Absolutely. At the age of 26, I lost my first race for Congress, 121 votes out of 83,000 votes cast, registering people to vote. If one doesn't think people can make a difference, I'm glad Stacey Abrams wasn't convinced of that. Who would have ever thought a year ago or 10 years ago the control of the United States Senate would be decided by a young Jewish man and an African-American pastor, both Democrats, being elected from the state of Georgia? You could have probably gotten pretty good odds on that. If you weren't a Baptist minister in Las Vegas, get good odds on that bet.

George Mason:
Well on that note, I don't think we could exemplify hope in the political process more than those improbable odds. So you're right.

Chet Edwards:
Absolutely. There's hope and whether we're people of faith or not people of faith, I hope we can continue to do what you encourage people to do and that is look for our common bonds, love our neighbors as thyself, and understand we all can and should try to make a difference in this world.

George Mason:
Terrific. Chet Edwards, thank you so much for joining me and for-

Chet Edwards:
Thank you.

George Mason:
... talking to our Good God audience. This is the perfect way to cap off these conversations about good politics and you were a man of good politics and we're grateful.

Chet Edwards:
George, thank you for the sermon of your life. You're an inspiration to so many of us. Thank you.

George Mason:
Very good. Take care.

Chet Edwards:
Thank you.

Speaker 3:
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