Carl Sherman, creator of the Botham Jean Act

Carl Sherman, the State Representative responsible for the Botham Jean Act, explains how he transformed street protests into public policy.

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George Mason:
Welcome to Good God, conversations that matter about faith and public life. I'm your host, George Mason. And I'm delighted to have a special conversation today with State Representative Carl Sherman Sr. from DeSoto, who is a remarkable public servant, a personal friend as well, and a real agent for reconciliation and justice in our community. Carl, welcome to Good God.

Carl Sherman:
Thank you, Pastor Mason. George, I really love you as a person, as a human being. You are God sent and just grateful for your thoughtful leadership, not just in the church, but beyond the walls of the church. Just excited. Every time I see you at various events, whether it be civic or community minded events, you are really an ambassador, I believe, for Christ and showing the light beyond the church walls. So thank you for having me.

George Mason:
Sure. Well, coming from you, that means a lot to me. And let's just start there though, because you called me pastor and I can do the same to you. I introduced you as a state representative, but this program is called Good God. And I like to connect the dots there. That is to say, here you are, a pastor yourself of a church of Christ in DeSoto, and you are also serving as a politician, a political figure. So in a sense, what we're talking about here is that your faith has connected you to public life, in a way that combines the God and the good.

George Mason:
And so, I'm interested in your sense of calling. I think we can all as ministers and many people who are watching or listening, understand the language of a call to ministry, but when you think of that call being connected to public service, how do you connect those two things in your own experience?

Carl Sherman:
Yeah, that's a good question. I think that a lot of people wrestle with that. And first I'd like to just begin with the premise that I believe when walk by faith, we're always walking according to the calling on our lives. God has a purpose for each and every one of us. And I pray that he delights in my ways.

Carl Sherman:
Knowing that your steps, your cadence should be ordered by the Lord, it takes great meditation, I believe, a sense of understanding that even though you may be in the pulpit as a pastor, you still, in fact even more so I believe, you've got to recalibrate every now and then spiritually. And that means, you have to be willing to ask yourself questions. Why am I doing this? Why at this time am I doing this? Is God calling me to do this? And I believe God is not inside of a closet. The God that we serve, calls us to go into other territories.

Carl Sherman:
Often, if you look at scripturally, we have many examples of men and women who were timid, or perhaps reluctant to answer the call. And God had a way of getting their attention from individuals like Moses, who seem to be an introvert. I can relate. I'm an introvert. And I don't like politics. Anytime I've campaigned, my wife complains about the fact that I tell people I don't like politics, but I don't. And my former press secretary said in a meeting one day, she said, "Sir, you don't like politics, but politics likes you." And I think really, I don't like politics, but I love people.

Carl Sherman:
And sometimes when the calling happens, it's uncomfortable. It stretches you to do something you don't want to do. But in the end, if you're the same and public, as you are in private, you can do those different missions that God is calling you to do.

Carl Sherman:
It's so important to maintain the authenticity of the spiritual walk that he has with you. So I don't run away from the calling that Christ has on my life, even though he's called me to serve in the Texas House of Representatives. I was my first session, very, very depressed when I came back, because God is popular on the house floor to talk about, but he's not necessarily popular to really be about. And I believe in local control, because I serve a God who informs me in his word that we are all free moral agents. So it's not my duty to push religion on someone, it's my duty, I believe, to be an example. Christ, as he says in Acts 1:1 he came to do and teach. So the doing comes first, the example comes first. And I pray to God that I'm doing it.

George Mason:
You mentioned Moses. And of course the prophets like Jonah and others who had a reluctance about the call that was theirs. But I think sometimes those of us who read the Bible and who approach life from a faith perspective, fail to recognize that the call to Moses and to Jonah and to Jeremiah and to others, was actually motivated by injustice in the world. That these calls were about bringing about God's righteousness in a public life, in the way people operated. And often speaking to powers, whether it's the Pharaoh or even the King of Israel or others, and changing the way people related to one another, to make the world a more just and peaceful place. What you can't really divide up in the Bible, the spiritual then, from the political. And so here you are serving in both capacities.

Carl Sherman:
Yeah. George, you summed it up very well. There is this paradox in American politics, I believe, as well as the church, where we compartmentalize our lives and our way of life. And Jesus said, of course, "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you." So there is a certain behavior that should permeate in our lives, no matter where we are in our lives. If we see injustice, we ought to be [inaudible 00:08:24] about speaking up against it. And we can't just stand by and watch these things happen.

Carl Sherman:
That's how I first got to know you, was your compassion for the family of Botham Jean and standing up for the injustice that was done, the loss. There are so many people who were quiet on the sidelines, and if we can't rationalize it, we will often blame the victim as opposed to understanding that maybe there's something wrong with our system.

George Mason:
All right. Let's go there, Carl. Because I think this is an important transition for us in this conversation, because yes, we had a tragedy that occurred when a police officer, Amber Geiger entered the wrong apartment of Botham Jean, and he thought that she was invading, and she thought he was in her apartment, and she fired her weapon and killed him.

George Mason:
Now, we can call that a tragedy on the one hand, but on the other hand, we recognize that there are things that led into that, in terms of police training and the use of firearms, and unconscious bias, that was all at work likely, in bringing that to pass.

George Mason:
So rather than just mourning as a community, going through the legal process that ended up with a conviction of Amber Geiger, you took it a step further. As a state rep, you proposed, and in a very divided legislature, you got past the Botham Jean Act. So you moved from street protests to policy in the state capital, to change things on a more permanent basis that would prevent these kinds of things from happening again.

George Mason:
Talk to us about that move from the streets to policy, and what the Botham Jean Act actually accomplishes.

Carl Sherman:
I want to refer to you invariably, as pastor, going from the pulpit to the pew and protest to policy, is one that is a process in which you have to reconcile the human issues that really affect our day to day lives, especially those who do not have a voice. And you have to be able to shepherd that process, in which you are measured in your approach, which really have a lot to do with having your steps ordered by the Lord, I believe.

Carl Sherman:
The scripture says in Philippians 4:6 be anxious for nothing. In all things, giving prayer and supplication thanksgiving. So all these things have to be done in a measured way. And it starts with relationships. Every change starts with relationship. Paul talks about having the ministry of reconciliation. And I believe wholeheartedly, the reason that we have to have a ministry of reconciliation is because as human beings, we invariably break things. We always break things. And so we're constantly offended by things and we have to be careful.

Carl Sherman:
So I began with the approach of building relationships and reaching out, reaching to the other side politically. And I started to have breakfast and lunch during the interim. And then we talked about what was important to us, and we talked about our mutual interest in building those relationships, getting the most powerful union in the United States, our police unions. And while we didn't get many of the law enforcement support, we were able to get some. The Texas Sheriff's Association, which I'm grateful for. Many of the unions actually worked against us and told the Republican members that this was a bad bill. And they kept going to their offices telling them that... Some were as bold to say that I was a bad person. And I was grateful for the relationships, because those fine Republican colleagues of mine said, "You're not welcome in this office. I know Carl Sherman, he's not a bad person." And I was grateful. They actually came and told me.

George Mason:
Wow.

Carl Sherman:
Shared that with me. And so we were able to get the support, understanding that our fight is not with flesh and blood. The pastors like yourself and others who were courageous to come and say, "This is about creating systemic accountability in law enforcement. This is good for the profession of law enforcement, as well as for our communities that we have HB 929 Bo's Law, affectionately named. And 929 simply requires that police must activate their body cams, and they cannot turn off their body cams during an investigation. So important. And I worked with constitutional lawyers like Lee Merritt on making sure that the provisions that were essential to the bill were maintained in the bill. And there was compromise in shaping that bill. And we got it done by the grace of God.

George Mason:
I think people would be interested to know, if they don't already, just how much of an institutionalist you are. That is to say, some people polarize in a way and say, people who are working for social justice, for racial justice and the like, automatically are really wanting to tear down our law enforcement, our institutions, they're wanting to... When you say, hold accountable, what you really mean is destroy civic responsibility and order, and those sorts of things. But the truth of the matter is, you've spent your entire life as a city manager, as a mayor, part of the business community, the chambers of commerce, and other sorts of organizations that are built around keeping the social fabric intact. So, you really are an anomaly in this sense, that when people come and think, "Here's Carl at a protest, he must be one of those guys." Well actually, things have to be pretty bad for you to be in the streets protesting, because you are normally boardrooms and in the corridors of power, trying to figure out how to hold things together.

Carl Sherman:
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely right. It is very disconcerting for me to be outside of the boardroom. However, the spirit of the Lord calls us to stand up for injustices. You think about the George Floyd tragedy and how that awakened the conscience of America, I believe. I received so many calls from many of my friends in the pulpit, as well as the business world, that are white and they were reaching out sincerely, wondering what could we do to affect change?

Carl Sherman:
And my thought on that is, America has a tendency to want to who rush to reconciliation without truth. And we experience what I call compassion fatigue. So after a while, after buying all the black author books, and trying to get a better understanding, have a sense of empathy about things, we have to really understand that George Floyd was not an aberration. Before George Floyd that was Rodney King. Before that there was James Byrd. And before Tamir Rice was killed, the 12 year old that was killed in park playing by himself. An officer drives up in less than five seconds, kills him... In fact, two seconds. He pulls his revolver out and kills a 12 year old kid who's playing by himself. Before that, there was Santos Rodriguez. 13 years old, in Dallas, Texas. Pulled out of his home, his parents couldn't do anything, and put in the back of a squad car with his brother, David. And the officer played Russian roulette with him. They accused him of stealing $8 out of a vending machine, which was later found to be untrue.

Carl Sherman:
We have to realize that in America, there are no white Santos Rodriguez, there are no white Botham Jeans, there are no white George Floyds, there are no white Atatiana Jeffersons, no white to Tamir Rice, no white Jonathan Price, no white Michael Dean. And the list goes on and on and on. And we have to do something about it. But we cannot reconcile these issues until we face the truth.

Carl Sherman:
And so, while I love our system of governance, and it is for me, I have a fidelity to having societal norms be the standard. That we cannot have people just act and make their own rules, and have these militias. We really have to own this. This is who we are. There is no other industrialized nation that has 1,000 people killed by police every year with firearms. 50, with stun guns every year.

Carl Sherman:
If they have three in a year in Europe, they're protesting. And here we have three a day. And so, we have to recognize that. If we are a Judeo-Christian society, we have to realize that prayer... When people say you have our prayer and thoughts, our thoughts and prayers are with you, that's important. But before he says, "The fervent effectual prayers of the righteous availeth much." He says just before that, "George, confess your faults one to another." So we've got to get to the truth part. And there's too much denial.

George Mason:
There we go. Carl, so as we think about where we are in Texas right now, getting to the truth of these things is something that it seems a lot of people are trying to avoid. The teaching of critical race theory is a red herring, it seems to me, in our public schools, because nobody's really teaching critical race theory to children. They are trying to teach a fair accounting of the racial history of our country. But at the same time, we have a proliferation of guns, and a kind of open season where people are unaccountable for their weapons. And now we have an abortion law in Texas that allows for, what amounts to the rewarding of vigilantes in our society. What in the world is happening?

George Mason:
You are a person who believes in the system, but you were also one of those who left the chambers and went to Washington DC in order not to have a quorum. And so, where are we, Carl, and what do you think is happening in our Texas culture, that is preventing us from having a greater sense of unity around truthfulness that leads to reconciliation?

Carl Sherman:
Yeah. Well, George, I think there are three things I'd just like to address about that. First, the quorum break. That was something that none of us, I believe, wanted to do, but we felt that we had to do. When we looked at the issue of many citizens losing their right to vote, or the freedom to vote, it was important. When we considered the imminent concern about gerrymandering, we to deny a quorum. The first time we denied a quorum, we went to a local church there at Austin, I led our caucus in a prayer, and we were hoping and praying that that would create the results that we wanted to have come about.

Carl Sherman:
Abraham Lincoln, a century ago, did it when he was in the Illinois State House. He jumped out of a second story window. None of us did that. We caught a plane. But we had precedence for this, in order to, when something rises as an erosion of our democracy, we had to respond.

Carl Sherman:
Why is this happening right now? I believe that there are those who feel threatened by the shift in our demographics. That with four million new Texans in Texas over the last decade, and 95% of them being people of color, this creates some anxiety for some. Some demographic anxiety that shift. And some people will do anything to ensure that they maintain that control, that they are accustomed to having. And so, it's human nature, I think, to try and preserve your power and look at life as though this is your fiefdom. Unfortunately, we have a history of clothing that in religion too. And Jesus says in John 18:36, that his kingdom is not of this world, and his servants, his children don't fight like the world fights. Unfortunately, that's what's happening on the House floor.

Carl Sherman:
And that's why draconian bills like HB 1927 were passed. The permitless carry bill, where all law enforcement came to the capital, so much so that it looked like police headquarters with all these police chiefs and rank and file that implored the legislative body to please not pass permitless carry. They said it would make their jobs more dangerous. And despite that, the party that said they backed the blue, ignored the blue, and passed the bill. And it just seems that there may be a connection. And I don't know, but the NRA before we started our session, announced that they were moving their headquarters from New York to Texas. And scripture tells us that we should avoid the appearance of evil. So there are just some things that we have to be guarded on doing. But they passed the bill.

Carl Sherman:
In our state, we have to recognize that while we have aspirational ideals about how we are all equal, we don't seem to live up to it. And it shows in our desire to erase some parts of history, ignore some parts of history and contribution, and eras that we've gone through, but yet highlight others.

Carl Sherman:
You look at the monuments and statues. I've said this before, but I think it deserves to be repeated. We have tens of thousands of monuments, of statues, of street names, of parks, and schools, and universities that are named after Confederate heroes who practiced genocide.

George Mason:
Right.

Carl Sherman:
And yet, conversely, we have only 31 monuments and statues of the great emancipator, Abraham Lincoln.

George Mason:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Carl Sherman:
And not all of those are in the United States. And our Lord currency has his image on it. So, we fight to keep these things up because we hold them in high esteem. And yet, we say one thing... Jesus says in Matthew 15:8, "They draw near to me with their lips, but their heart is far from me." Our heart is on the erection of Sam Houston, and others Lamar, instead of recognizing that those individuals should not be held in high esteem for what they've done.

George Mason:
Well, Carl, I think you and I could talk about these things all day. We've come, I think, to the end of our time together. And it's appropriate probably, given the light coming in through the window of my room, I'm already very white, but I'm disappearing, I think, in the cloud, for those who are watching this and not just listening to it. The contrast is great, but actually our hearts are one. And I thank you so much for being a great partner in faith, and in public life, and a great advocate for justice. And we look forward to continued work together in the future.

Carl Sherman:
Thank you so much, George. I appreciate you. God bless you.

George Mason:
Great. Take care.

Carl Sherman:
Thank you, you too.

Speaker 3:
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