Episode 102: Jody Dean on how his faith shapes his work in the media

Jody Dean talks to George more about how his faith connects with his life's work in television and radio, including the reasons behind his new "good news" program: More Life, on Saturdays at 11am on CBS11.

Listen here, read the transcript below, or click here for the full video version.

George Mason: Welcome to Good God, conversations that matter about faith and public life. I'm George Mason, your host, and I'm thrilled to welcome back to the program, Texas Radio Hall of Famer. This is Jody Dean, the great Jody Dean. Jody, thanks for joining us again on Good God.

Jody Dean: Thank you George. Appreciate it. Good to be here.

George Mason: Well, in our first episode we talked about your faith journey, your spiritual journey about the long and winding road that is and that continues to be, which is true for all of us, isn't it?

Jody Dean: Oh goodness. Yeah, some people have a shorter road, I'm sure, but I'm not so sure that ... I'm very grateful for my road. I mean, there are a lot of things I would do differently, but just for me, I think that it was tailored for my own personality. Let me put it that way.

George Mason: Well, we call this program Good God. And so we talked a good bit about the relationship with God that you have in the first episode, but I want to move that a little bit toward how we integrate that in our public life, and in doing good. And so just to begin with, for someone like you, there's all sorts of opportunities to use your position and your place in public life to support good causes. And I know that probably over the course of the last 40 years or so, you've been a host for numerous fundraisers and banquets and you've put the spotlight on an awful lot of good things going on in the community. Some of that's just sort of the work that you do, but how much of that is also the recognition of this is sort of part of your vocation as a Christian too.

Jody Dean: Well, I think it's what I'm here for really. I've always felt like that my platform is rather useless if I'm the only one on it. So whatever ability I have to give other people who are doing good things exposure or attention or praise where praise is due, I feel like that's a duty. I can't choose a strong enough word to describe that. And that's the thing is, the best part of my career has always been and will always be the people I've been privileged to meet. It floors me. It absolutely floors me. The kindness and goodness of people out there on a day to day basis. Most of the time we never hear their names. We don't know what they do. They just make the world go round. And so if I can do anything to shine a light on that and encourage other people to do the same thing, then that's a really ... That's much better than playing a hit song or covering the latest car wreck.

George Mason: It's interesting to me though, how important it is to people who is the one who is doing the shining the light.

Jody Dean: Oh, there's no doubt.

George Mason: You do the news on the one hand and you're over here trying to shine the light on someone else but people believe that and care about it because of you being the trusted one that is doing the broadcast, so to speak.

Jody Dean: Well, it's funny, I worked for a long time with one of my many fathers and I'm grateful for all the fathers that I have, but one of my primary dads in life has been Ron Chapman, who I worked with at KBIL and who I followed at KLUV and he's kind of my Elijah in many ways. In fact, I said when he left KLUV and I took over the morning show after he departed, just give me a half a your spirit and I'll be good.

George Mason: Nice.

Jody Dean: And he used to talk about the ability to hold a spotlight for others. And he said you can find 5,000 people who want to stand in the spotlight, but you can only find five who were willing to hold it for others and do it well. And I thought, man, that's the ... And that was his secret, is that people think about Ron Chapman as this ginormous ego and this creative genius and all of this sort of thing. But his secret was that he was able to assemble a team and shine that spotlight on members of the team and let them shine. And when you put together a great group of people and have the right chemistry, which is so important, the ability to take a step back and let somebody else have the [inaudible 00:04:32] or have the punchline or have the moment or whatever, that's a gift.

Jody Dean: And so I got to watch that on a regular basis and yes it's hard to do. We all want to run in and rescue the bit. And he was willing to trust other people and their professionalism and I tried to learn from that.

George Mason: It really reminds me that the great theologian Karl Barth of the 20th century, his favorite painting was Mathau Grunewald's painting of John the Baptist pointing a bony finger at the cross where Jesus is. And the reason it's so interesting I think is because obviously John the Baptist would not have been there pointing at the cross. He was already dead. But it's like what Barth was saying and he believed the artist was saying is we're never the Christ figure ourselves, we're always the John the Baptist figure that's pointing to where do we see Christ in the world and using our voice and our spotlight to throw light to other people and say this is what you should be looking at.

Jody Dean: Yeah. I think that painting is spot on. And I think that way too many of us, and this is something that is really nettlesome for me. Way too many of us claim the glory rather than point to it. I think that's a failing of modern Western Christianity in particular that we want to think it's all about us. I think it was Max Lucado who said, it's not about us and it's not about now. And I think that's very true. It's about how well we follow the rules. It's how well we follow the liturgy. It's about how well we stick to the script. And it's not about any of that. It's not about any of that. It's about the grace when you don't, it's about the forgiveness when you don't, and I think Paul said, just filthy rags, just filthy rags.

Jody Dean: And so I think that anytime we can point and say there's the reason, whether it's in our faith or whether it's a teacher or whether it's a doctor or whether it's a coworker or whether it's a colleague, a neighbor, a friend, a minister, whoever is to say, no, no, no, I don't deserve the credit for that. That person does. That's the one who made this work. Fiona, my beloved, for years she was an actress and she taught me something that I really had never thought about before. And I'm embarrassed to say that was that the best actors are generous actors.

George Mason: Nice.

Jody Dean: They're generous actors. They don't hog the scene, they don't hog the limelight. They're very giving in their performances and they allow the people sharing the scene with them to shine. And boy that generosity of spirit doesn't just apply to our spiritual walk or to our faith or to our church or anything. It should. We're seeing it right now. When people go to the grocery store and take more time to thank that checkout clerk or that delivery driver and those people, that sharing that credit and that's one of the beautiful things that's coming out of this whole mess.

George Mason: Of course, on the other hand, there are those who are going in there and hoarding as well. So they're coming out with more than they need. And I'm looking at the sign behind your head there. It says jodydean.com, less stuff, more what?

Jody Dean: Yeah, more life.

George Mason: More life, and More Life is the title of your new program.

Jody Dean: Well yeah. And that's where it came from actually. Fiona suggested that and we didn't know what we were going to call it. In fact, when we first put it on the boards to produce, we didn't have a title, we did not have a title. And finally, Gary Schneider, who's the president and general manager at CBS 11 said, "Well, let's just call it More Life." And I thought, well, isn't that something we need? I'll tell you where that came from is because like most of us, we go through that period of our life where we chase stuff. Just stuff. Like George Carlin used to, "Get more stuff."

George Mason: One of the greatest comedy sketches ever.

Jody Dean: It's scriptural even for George. But I was in that same mode too. We all want the big house and the car and blah blah blah blah. Well I've got a paid off 12 year old and it's the most beautiful thing in the world right now. We've got an 800 square foot home. We have one bathroom in our house. Let me tell you something. If you want to strengthen your relationship, buy a house with one bathroom because you will learn to communicate, I guarantee it. And we built this little tiny studio in the back, which was actually going to be a place for the family to come stay when they were in town or for my daughter to have sleepovers with her buddies. And now it's a TV studio that we're producing this show from. And the whole thing about, you can't take it with you. I mean, we all know that. So what can we take with us? More life. More life. So that's where the title came from.

George Mason: Let's say More Life is 11:00 AM on Saturdays on 11, CBS 11 and so what kind of stories are you doing? What are you shining the light on?

Jody Dean: Well, good things that great people are doing in the community and it's just all over the map. I mean, one of the things that we've learned during this pandemic is just how original and creative and thoughtful people can be. And it doesn't have to be anything big. I get emails and messages constantly now from people who were saying, well my group is making masks or PPE or my business has converted its production line or it's endless. Endless. People are sending me videos and photos, here's what we're doing. And we had a drive by parade for my 89 year old grandmother. And just little things. The little things that make the world go round. And I always try to look for what's the point of all this? Why are we going through this? What is the meaning to all this? What are we meant to appreciate?

Jody Dean: And this has given us an opportunity, I think to really dwell on a lot of the good, and frankly, George, I've got to be honest with you, this show was born of rage. When I started looking around at what was going on and how people are treating this and how some members of the community view this and the the minimization and the dismissal and that sort of thing, just filled me with so much rage. Again, this is, I mentioned in a previous podcast that somebody once called me Peter while I was reaching for the sword. I just wanted to whack somebody's head off. I mean I have a temper and so it's funny that the show that is spotlighting the great good that people are doing was born of anger and I thought there's got to be some way to focus on the actions people are taking to help others.

George Mason: Right. So it's interesting that the great mystery writer PD James said that "Evil is really easy to write about because it's big and flashy and quick." Good is more difficult because it takes time. You have to be able to see how it comes to fruition from small acts that are often not glamorous and really having a format like yours is different from doing the evening news, so to speak. Because the evening news you've got people say, well, why don't we have more good stories? Well the goodness is going on all the time, but these breaks in it with these evil acts are newsworthy. But now you're able to show us in a format that that is a kind of antidote to that. What goodness really is going on all the time.

Jody Dean: Well by definition, I wrote a book years ago and it's not the book I would write now. And it was called Finding God in the Evening News. And it didn't sell. I think my mom bought 10 copies and that was it. And it didn't sell because if I had titled it Finding Evil in the Evening News, it would have been a bestseller. Because people want their biases confirmed and finding good in the evening news, finding God in the evening news, nobody wanted to hear that. And the whole premise of the book was that 30 minutes of news, it's a 30 minute call to prayer. If you're looking for something to pray for, watch the news. There's something, there's something, there's something, there's something. And so one of the things I wrote in the book was something I'd heard somewhere. "No one slows down to watch a good driver."

Jody Dean: News by definition is the exception to the rule. It's oddity, it's impact, it's familiarity. All of those things. Well this show, More Life, is about the rule. It's not about the exceptions. It's not about the bad things or the disasters or the train derailments and car wrecks and things like that. This is about things that work right. And news organizations have tried the good news cast before. Nobody watched, nobody watched. There was a station in Chicago years ago that tried to do 30 minutes of good news. Nobody watched, nobody wanted to because we don't watch the news for good stuff. We say we do, but we really don't. Well, this show is out of that mold. It's not at six o'clock or 6.30 or whenever. It's on Saturday mornings at 11 o'clock and yeah, I guess there's kind of a faith bent to it that doesn't have to be.

Jody Dean: I think a lot of us get caught up in the idea that it has to be churchy church. No, it doesn't. God can use anybody and however you define him or her, I mean, there's a goodness in us, in human beings. It's the better angels of our nature. I think that's what Lincoln called it. And I really believe that. And I think that shining a light on that. That's not the news's job, we shouldn't even ask them to do that. I've been in the news, and by the way, let me tell you something. I've heard people say recently, these people on the news, they seem to be pulling for the river rather than the box of puppies. And I've been in the news media for 45 plus years now and never have I met anyone in that business who's pulling for the river.

Jody Dean: What I have seen are people, once the camera goes off, who sob as they walk out of the studio and there are no grief counselors for them. There's no one there to console them or say, it's okay. You'll be okay. I vividly remember after 9/11 it was the day that they had the ceremony at the National Cathedral and they sang, It Is Well With My Soul. And if you know the story of that Horatio Spafford song, it's gripping.

George Mason: Powerful.

Jody Dean: I was balling. Rene Syler, who went on to host the CBS Early Show for years, was sitting next to me. She's crying. Everybody in the studio is crying. That happens more than people realize. And after 30 minutes, that's one reason I stopped doing it. I got tired of walking out of there everyday feeling beaten down. So this show is about trying to focus on those things that go on every day. They don't make the headlines, thank God, because if they did, they'd be the exception to the rule. The idea that neighbors mowing the little strip in the easement between their house and the person next door, the person who's collecting mail, the person who's going, yeah, a great example of this Hawkeye Lewis, who's the morning guy on one of the local radio stations here in Dallas, Fort Worth.

Jody Dean: I run into him one day at the grocery store. "Hey man, I saw you here." We live in the same area. I said, "I saw you here the other day. Why are you back so soon?" He goes, "I'm shopping for a shut in neighbor of mine."

George Mason: Nice. There it is right there. Neighborliness, What does the Lord require of you.

Jody Dean: That's not going to make the six o'clock news or the front page of the paper, but it's going to make the world go round and people are doing that and I wish we had more time than this little 30 minutes to do it. But right now while we're all looking for that beam of hope, that ray of light, that feels like it serves a purpose.

George Mason: We're talking with Jody Dean and Jody, I want to take you now to this Coronavirus period. And it has in some ways when I follow you on social media, I see that it has gotten your cackles up.

Jody Dean: Oh yeah.

George Mason: A lot of people of faith especially who are denying science and who are misrepresenting the best of our faith tradition. And I suppose as a public figure, people who love and trust you and know that you're a Christian, you might be putting yourself out there sometimes on social media and not just fluffing the pillows of the faithful.

Jody Dean: Well, it's something I've never done before. Even in my sin and error, I've always had a big mouth and I haven't always been honest about myself, but I've always tried to shoot straight with people about what I feel. And gradually the two have come into alignment, I hope more than they used to be. But when I see something that I just feel is wrong or wrong headed, I am not the kind of person who's just going to stand there with my hands in my pocket and say or do nothing.

Jody Dean: Now I'm not just going to say something and leave it at that. I'm going to try to go do something too, which is kind of the genesis of this program. But yeah, I said for a long time, and this is going to ... I'm sure you know Ole Anthony.

George Mason: Oh sure.

Jody Dean: Ole Anthony is kind of a spiritual mentor and I think he has a ministry of accountability and he isn't for everybody. He isn't for everybody. Let me tell you something, and I had him on.

George Mason: Just for the listeners, Ole Anthony is a guy who shines a spotlight on the people of faith, faith leaders who are dubious in character.

Jody Dean: Why do you need that Gulf stream jet there preacher? That sort of thing. So I had him on my TV show years ago. We did a TV show at CBS 11 called Positively Texas, and it was right before Y2K and of course everybody's buzzing about the millennium and is this the end of the era? And all of that sort of, the end of the age. And I asked him on camera, I said, a lot of people are worried about the antichrist. Who is the antichrist? And Ole looked dead at me live on the air and said, look in the mirror. And he's right. And he's right. This flesh is antichrist. And I find it fascinating that John who gave us that mystical 666 number in John 6:66, 6:66, yeah says, "And at that they turned to no longer follow him."

Jody Dean: Now I don't believe in coincidence. Jesus is talking about eating the blood and drinking the blood and eating the flesh and that sort of thing. And when they heard this, who can follow it, it's too hard. And they turned and no longer followed. That's John 6:66. So turning and following is antichrist or turning away and not following. And so that's me on a daily basis. That's not Sam Neil, that's not some little kid named Damian. That's me on a daily basis. And so I think that we, and in this culture, which is very tempting, it's an easy thing to do, have chosen idols. And that's one of Ole's big things. And we followed those idols, we followed our own righteousness, we followed our own legality, we followed our own rule keeping. We followed our own, aren't we great?

Jody Dean: And I think that arrogance and that pride, what does the Bible say about pride? We can all quote that scripture. And I have said for a while that we have chosen a golden calf and I pray that 40 years in the wilderness is all we get. I really do pray that because I have grandchildren now. My oldest son and his wife have two little kids and I worry about their future. And I worry about what they're going to face. And I know that the quickest way to disaster from personal experience is to think we're all that. And I think that the only way through that, the only way to stop that is to try focus on what people are doing for each other. Humbly. I mean, these people don't want recognition or acknowledgement, but they're out there feeding their neighbors and they're comforting their friends and I mean those first responders and frontline healthcare workers out there that are doing miracles on a daily basis. C.S Lewis said, "What we call miracles are just the everyday occurrences writ large."

George Mason: And sped up. That's right.

Jody Dean: And sped up. Yeah. That's what they're doing. And so to celebrate that brings us back into that moment where we can say, humbly, this is what it's about. It's not about us. And it's not about now, it's about them. It's shining that light on them.

George Mason: So this is actually what politics is. I'm not really changing the subject here because politics is the way we organize our lives together in the world, the way we treat one another and I think we confuse government and politics sometimes. And government has a way of undoing the kind of political life that we should really be sharing. And you're not shy about poking at government and about government officials when they're disturbing the way we order our body politic instead of nurturing it.

Jody Dean: Listen, I have no patience for mendacity because I have practiced it. I know it when I see it. I know con artists when I see them because I have been one, I know how this works. I know how messaging works. I know how repetition works. I know how branding works. I know how applause works. And all of those things can be very, very toxic. And I think that we have gotten to a point now where we are very easily led. I don't mean to be a scourge, although I do love that moment in the New Testament where Jesus is so angry at what's going on in the Temple, that he sits down to braid a whip of knotted cords. That takes time. Now he had time to cool off and didn't, and he goes, now I don't know that I would have stopped at the Temple door. I might've gone out in the street and kept going. But that's the difference between him and me.

Jody Dean: There is a verse in Proverbs about six things God hates and seven he despises. And if you read through that, I mean it's not a long, I think if you include divorce, which he mentions in Malachi, that makes what? Eight, something like that. But lips that sew discord, feet that run to do evil, haughty eyes, haughty eyes. God hates that. God hates my prideful eyes. Hands that shed innocent blood. There's no equivocation about that. There's no fudging on that sort of thing. And I think that what we really need to do is examine everything we do and ask ourselves, okay, is this something? Does it fall into that category or one of those six or seven categories? And if it does, why are we doing it? Why are we doing it?

Jody Dean: And I think that you only have to look as far as Twitter or social media or Facebook and see lips that sew discord, haughty eyes. It's like, oh my God, what are we doing? And that's why I really wonder, okay, wilderness is right over there. If you want to spend 40 years over there until this generation is wiped from the face of the Earth, is dust, we can go there. Or you can figure this stuff out now and save yourself a lot of trouble. Because believe me, we've all learned, our dad in the car, don't make me come back there. Don't make me come find you. Because if that happens, all bets are off at that point.

George Mason: Well, faith is, when you talk about these things, six things and seven that God despises, there's a tendency among religious people, especially evangelical Christians, to internalize faith and personalize it to such an extent that there's a disconnect from the way they treat their relationship vertically with God and horizontally with other people.

Jody Dean: One of my favorite stories comes, and I don't know how, George you probably know this story better than I do. But I heard this years ago that when the apostle John was a little old man. Oh and by the way, for all those who believe the prosperity gospel, have you noticed that 11 of the original 12 died violent, horrible deaths. So there's John and he's the last surviving member of the bunch and he's an old man and all of his friends, including his brother, have all gone before him. He's pretty much alone in the world now. And he is there in Ephesus and he's so old that they carry him into the worship service and every time he comes in, he always has only one thing to say. Now this is the story, but it fits because this is a man who laid his head on Jesus's chest and actually heard the heartbeat of Christ.

Jody Dean: He says to the people, "Little children, if you but love one another, it is enough." He doesn't mention going twice on Sundays, once on Wednesdays. He doesn't mention whether you've got a piano in the sanctuary or not. He doesn't mention whether you wear robes or not. He doesn't mention whether you respect the Pope not. He says if you just love each other, it's enough. And isn't that what Jesus kind of said? Here are the two greatest commandments. Love the Lord your God as thyself and your neighbor. And that's it.

George Mason: There it is, the summary of it all.

Jody Dean: The tee shirt that I love is baseball is life, the rest is just a tale. Well that's life. Love one another, that's enough. And we get caught up in what's on the building, what the sign on the building, who's on the sign instead of who's inside the building.

George Mason: Beautiful.

Jody Dean: And that's just to me, I go back to our previous podcast when I talked about my mom and pop encouraging me to think outside of myself and outside the box. I think that's the biggest thing that we fall a foul of is that we get caught up in where we worship. And we're at Six Flags over Jesus. Well we must be in his favor, no, I've got to tell you a quick story. I visited this very poor church once in South Dallas. I was doing a story on people who were giving during the holidays and I walked in, it's in that book. And again, I wouldn't buy it. I wouldn't write that book again. Really, I wouldn't. And this woman was in the kitchen and by herself before anybody else got there that day. And I showed up and it's a bad part of town and a guy like me in a truck like that, could have been there to rob her and I walk into the kitchen. She never looked up.

Jody Dean: She's making breakfast for the volunteers who were still on their way and she said, "Are you hungry?" And I thought to myself then, and I still think that to this day: when you walk into any place, a church in particular, and those are the first words you hear, are you hungry? Then you have found a church?

George Mason: That's wonderful. Well, it reminds me that your Church of Christ background is making a contribution here because one of the gifts the Church of Christ gave to the more traditional, historic church is a reminder that the church is not the denomination and it's not the building. It's the people gathered who are living their faith.

Jody Dean: Oh dude, oh listen, this past year, the last two years I've been privileged to be part of a lessons and carol service at the church. I'm going to get this wrong. The Church of the Incarnate Word or Church of the Incarnation. It's right there off Central Expressway.

George Mason: Church of the Incarnation.

Jody Dean: Thank you very much. Yeah, believe me, Church of Christ kids have trouble with anything longer than Trailight Church of Christ. If you start throwing those liturgical words in there, we get lost. So it's the Church of the Incarnation and they do this beautiful service where they have this magnificent choir and they're doing these canticles and songs from 700, 800 years ago. And we get up and we read a scripture and they sing and we read a script, lessons and carols and it is high church. And I may start crying just thinking about it because there's something for everyone, whether it's the Methodist youth minister and the guitar, whether it's young life or whether it's that.

George Mason: Or acapella singing in four part harmony.

Jody Dean: It's funny, when I was at Abilene Christian University and I left after two years, because I wanted to go to work in the radio and television business, but you didn't think about it. I didn't at the time, how much I love chapel every day and we would sing, soldiers of Christ Arise and The Lord Bless You and Keep You and my granddad directing songs at the Walder Street Church of Christ, you're chopping cotton, this whole thing. And how much I loved that and how much I look back and still love that. And that's why whenever I get to go worship with my friends in the Jewish faith or my friends in the Muslim faith, I drink it in. I got to speak at Notre Dame one time and I'm walking the campus and it was a foggy Monday.

George Mason: What a place.

Jody Dean: It was beautiful and it was a foggy Monday night. And they have the replica of the church of the grotto of Lourdes and the candles are all over the place. If you've seen Rudy, you know the scene and I'm standing there and there's touchdown Jesus up on the hill.

George Mason: I got to play football there and see that.

Jody Dean: See, and I walked into the church that they have the chapel of the Incarnate Word there and it's a Monday night and there's probably 700, 800 students in there for vespers. And I'm like, who wouldn't love this? Church of Christ or otherwise. I mean if my grandparents saw me dancing they'd probably have a heart attack, but that makes me want to dance. I'm sorry. It just does. It made David want to dance. So I think that's the beauty of it is that there is something at that table for everyone.

George Mason: Well Jody Dean, you're certainly inviting us to that table in the various ways you serve our community and serve the Lord and doing it. And thank you for sharing your life and your thoughts on Good God with us. We're grateful to be in the journey with you.

Jody Dean: Well thank you George. Thank you for all that you and Wilshire Baptist have done and are doing. And I tell you, you are an encouragement to me and you strengthen me and I'm kind of an itinerant believer. I'll worship wherever they'll let me. And I'm surprised that more churches don't see me coming and lock the door, frankly. I had one woman when I was baptized as an adult, said, you're lucky they didn't hold you under. But what you guys are doing is just fantastic and I'm privileged to be a part of this.

George Mason: Well, we have a tee shirt that says "Every body," and that means you and anybody else. So we think that's what the good news is all about. Thanks for being with us, Jody Dean. God bless you.

Jody Dean: Thank you.

George Mason: Thanks so much for continuing to tune into good God. We've enjoyed having these episodes produced, over 100 of them now usually in the studio, but now we're doing so through computer technology in this time of social isolation. We're all trying to be careful with one another, but we also want to be careful to cultivate our spirit during this time. Not to be discouraged, not to be despairing, but to be encouraged and to encourage one another. So thank you for tuning in. We hope you appreciate these as much as we enjoy being able to offer them to you as a gift.

Jim White: Good God is created by Dr. George Mason, produced and directed by Jim White. Social media coordination by Cameron Vickrey. Good God, conversations with George Mason is the podcast devoted to bringing you ideas about God, faith and the common good. All material, copyright 2020 by Faith Commons.