Meet Pamela Cooper-White, MDiv, PhD, LCPC, author of the recently released The Psychology of Christian Nationalism, which uncovers the troubling extent of Christian nationalism, explores its deep psychological roots, and discusses ways in which advocates for justice can safely and effectively attempt to talk across the deep divides in our society.

In this conversation, George and Pamela discuss what Christian nationalism is, the difference between nationalism and patriotism, the cult of personality and the fragility of democracy, and how to channel our energy and outrage into education and advocacy for social change.

Pamela Cooper-White, MDiv, PhD, LCPC is the Christiane Brooks Johnson Professor Emerita of Psychology and Religion and Dean Emerita, Union Theological Seminary, New York, an Episcopal priest in the Diocese of New York, and a licensed psychotherapist.

George is joined by his friend and colleague Rev. Dr. Amy Butler, author of the recently released Beautiful and Terrible Things on the necessity of community, the inevitability of conflict, and the transformative power of radical love.

They discuss her book and her story, how the weaponizing of religion today is similar to the political situation Jesus encountered, and the need for crossing boundaries and for doing the hard work.

“Religious communities can be good and redemptive and world-changing if we'll only do the hard work.” - Amy Butler