Gratitude and the Common Good: Reimagining Community with Kyle Ogden
At the heart of downtown Dallas lies Thanks-Giving Square—a place designed to inspire gratitude, foster interfaith understanding, and call an entire city toward the common good. In this episode, George Mason sits down with Kyle Ogden, President and CEO of The Thanks-Giving Foundation, to talk about the Square’s origins, its bold civic vision, and its evolving role in today’s divided cultural landscape.
Together, they explore how gratitude functions as a foundational virtue, why nonprofits matter in a healthy democracy, and what it means to shift from personal success to public significance. Kyle also shares his own story of professional transition—from leading a family business to helping reshape Dallas through civic reflection, spiritual hospitality, and the quiet power of place.
Kyle Ogden is the President and CEO of The Thanks-Giving Foundation, where he leads efforts to cultivate gratitude, bridge community divides, and promote human flourishing in the city of Dallas.
Watch the video, here.
GEORGE (00:00):
Welcome to Good God, conversations that matter about faith and public Life. I'm your host George Mason, and I'm delighted to welcome to Good God, Kyle Ogden, who is the president and CEO of Thanksgiving Foundation here in Dallas. Kyle, welcome to the program. Thank
KYLE (00:16):
You, George. Happy to be here.
GEORGE (00:18):
Well, Kyle, uh, I think before we get into your personal details, when people hear, and I'm sure if they live in the Dallas area, they've heard of the Thanksgiving Foundation and Thanksgiving Square, but you've just had, uh, a year of celebrating 60 years. ? That's 60 years, not, you personally, but the foundation, . And, uh, and this enterprise, it is a unique place and a unique idea. Tell us how it got started and what that history is. Okay,
KYLE (00:49):
Great. So unique. Maybe it's an understatement. I'm not sure there's anything like it anywhere. Yes. Uh, so in the sixties, and we all know what was going on in Dallas in the sixties, and it was, you know, we were kind of slow to come to some of the cultural change that the rest of the country came to. And, and there were a group of business guys that, that, uh, gathered together led by Peter Stewart . Uh, who is really kind of the, you know, the founder and kind of the, the energy behind the square . But, uh, in the, in 1964, uh, 60 years ago, 61 years ago now. . Um, they formed the Thanksgiving Foundation and it was, uh, really partially a green space, but really a place that would inspire Dallas sites to, to a higher, uh, culture, if you will. . Uh, it was a, um, I look, it's one of the fun things you do is you look through all of the stuff in a 60-year-old organization.
KYLE (01:52):
There's lots of stuff. Yes. And so I've looked through a lot of that stuff, and that's been interesting. And one of the things that I discover is, you know, these guys thought they were building the Statue of Liberty in the middle of Dallas <laugh>. They, they compared, uh, Thanksgiving Square to gratitude as the Statue of Liberty is to freedom. So, okay. That's interesting. They, you know, they had, it was really a big idea, George. I mean, it was not, uh, not, not the run of the mill project. Sure. It was, you know, a a city block in downtown Dallas and . Uh, you know, these guys really thought, and they commenced the community. There's 400 something citizens and institutions involved in raising that contributed towards Thanksgiving Square. . And I'm convinced they thought they were building in the Statue of Liberty in downtown Dallas. Yeah. They, and, uh, and that it, its role would be kind of alongside of, uh, the, you know, uh, Eric Johnson, the . TI executive. . Came on board and, and became the mayor . Around that time, and they did goals for Dallas. . And where they all went down and studied . 70 people, went down to Salado, Texas, the Stage Coach Inn, and, uh, convened a conversation about the future of Dallas. And, you know, kind of the,
GEORGE (03:08):
Well, this is in the wake of the JFK killing here. Absolutely. In Dallas. You know, and so Dallas's reputation was really poor nationally, obviously, at that, at that time. And so
KYLE (03:19):
Probably well earned, honestly.
GEORGE (03:20):
That's probably . Yeah, exactly. So, so if people were to go downtown, they would find this interesting sort of triangle of lan d. Right, . Uh, that's, uh, that, that has some, uh, unique architectural features to it, including an interfaith chapel and, and a building designed by, uh, was it Philip Johnson? Philip Johnson, yeah. Philip Johnson, one of the famous architects, uh, in America in the, uh, uh, late 20th century
KYLE (03:46):
George. Interesting story there real quick.
GEORGE (03:47):
Yeah.
KYLE (03:48):
Down in the basement, and you've, you've, you've seen our basement Yeah. And all the archives there. I'm going through a file, uh, cabinet one day, , and I see these folders in there, and there's a folder for Frank Lloyd Wright. Wow. There's a folder for IM Pei. Wow. There's a folder for obviously Philip Johnson and a number of others. So again, ano another data point that indicates, you know, these guys were doing something important. Oh,
GEORGE (04:11):
Big time. Absolutely. So, uh, the Interfaith Chapel is a unique place. Uh, so if you go down there and it's, uh, it, it's available to people, uh, to, uh, different groups to, uh, go and pray and that sort of thing. . So it's, uh, it, it's, it's not a chapel in the traditional sense of the word. . It's kind of, uh, kind of, uh, generic, you might say. , . But it has this spiral that goes up and you're, you, you feel like when you're in there, this small space and very plain, otherwise, that your eye goes up into this spiral and this, this mosaic of stained glass. . So, tell us about that. What was the idea of that? So,
KYLE (04:55):
Gabriel Loire, uh, was the artist, a Frenchman that, uh, designed that, uh, and, you know, it's purposefully unadorned. Yeah. Other than that beautiful stained glass window, which, by the way, architectural Digest ranks among the most beautiful, uh, stained glass windows in the world. Wow.
KYLE (05:15):
Uh, and in fact, it's the, uh, I'm told . Haven't really studied this. I'm told it's the world's largest horizontally mounted stained glass window. Fascinating. Uh, yeah. But it is, uh, uh, and the, the interfaith nature of it, or the, um, the lack of religious a adornment, uh, turns out to be kind of exactly what you need in a, uh, in a diverse city like the city of Dallas. 'cause everybody is welcome there. Uh, you know, I like to talk about, you know, our community is every, all people of goodwill. Yeah. You know, if you have a person of goodwill, then you're, then we embrace you as part of our community at Thanksgiving Square. You know, if, well,
GEORGE (06:01):
I, I think, I think there's an interesting contrast that we could, we could bring. So for example, you have the National Cathedral in Washington, dc obviously an enormous building and completely different . But it's supposed to function in a sense as a, a, a place where everyone is welcome to worship and that sort of thing, even though it's run by the Episcopal Church. Uh, and, uh, and, and yet it is a church, and it is an a, a Christian Church trying to exercise hospitality to others. But here in Dallas, uh, Thanksgiving Square, the Interfaith Chapel, you bring your own faith tradition to fill the space that is welcoming, but is not dictating to you a kind of architectural, uh, liturgy, if you will, a kind of a way that you should have to conform. You're, you're bringing it. I think that is really a metaphor for the kind of city we want to be. And really, if you think about it for the, the kind of country that we set out to be, though that i s of course, right now an incredibly contested view. Yeah.
KYLE (07:12):
We don't have good concurrence on that. No.
GEORGE (07:14):
We really don't. We really don't. But, but anyway, so in addition to being a place, uh, you have, uh, also programs, uh, I know that annually you host, uh, at the, uh, Myerson recent years, uh, the, uh, national Day of Prayer, uh, luncheon. Luncheon. Yeah. And, uh, be doing that again this year on, uh, may the first. Exactly. Exactly. Uh, and so, you know, when, when you think about programming, Kyle, what, what's the programming, uh, philosophy of Thanksgiving Foundation?
KYLE (07:50):
So, I, I would say at the, at the root of it's community building, okay. Uh, you know, we want to be, uh, facilitators of a better, uh, a better Dallas, a better place to be. You know, one of the things that, uh, I've been there seven years. One of the things that, that, uh, I've tried to evolve us to is more of a, a little more of a local focus. Uh, yes. Peter Stewart and the folks, uh, the, the founders had big national am international ambitions. . His, his dream was to have a world Day of Thanksgiving where everybody on, on the planet, uh, uh, celebrated Thanksgiving on the same day, ambitious and important goal, but it kinda looked beyond the city, uh, at a more, at, at, you know, we're a un NGO. And I see he, he, he was kind of looking beyond the community .
KYLE (08:39):
At this big goal that he had. And, and, uh, unfortunately the, you know, the foundation suffered because of that, because we weren't directly addressing the needs of the community. . Uh, you know, we, our, uh, constituency kind of faded away and we weren't, you know, providing a, a, a, a value to that the, that the, or at least the community wasn't valuing what we were, uh, putting out there for them to . To consume. And so we, we've taken more of a local community focus in recent years . Um, and, and trying to be, uh, a, uh, uh, quality of, have a conversation about quality of life and what does it mean to be human, and how do you know, kind of, uh, addressing the, uh, our inner humanity and our connectivity, our spirituality, those kinds of things through. And so you asked about programming. I mean, we, you, it, there's, there are a lot of things that kind of fit in that realm we try not to do. Um, I don't consider us, uh, an overtly religious organization. I do, uh, think we advocate for, uh, diversity. . Uh, religious diversity is one flavor of diversity, but we all, again, when you build diversity, sure, yeah. But when you're building a community . An inclusive community, it goes beyond talk a conversation about religion. It goes, it goes to other elements as well. And so, alright.
GEORGE (10:04):
So where did you come to this work? Uh, so here, you, you were a businessman, Uh, and, uh, you, your, your background is not in, um, public service. Your, your background is, is not in, um, civic, uh, life and all of that. So what brought you to this and, and what happened and changed in, in the direction of your life to, to bring you to this film?
KYLE (10:30):
Yeah. In, in, interesting. Yeah. Kind of. I'm, I was kind of on the opposite end of that. So I'm a a a 5 million mile American Airlines guy, <laugh>, I, I, I spent my, uh, first career on an airline. Okay.
GEORGE (10:42):
Uh,
KYLE (10:43):
I'm an MBC, CPA, . Yeah. Started Deloitte. Yeah. Uh, joined our, my wife's family business, ran that business for 30 years, and we sold it. . And, uh, so, so as you describe, not community involved, particularly, not civically alert . Uh, but, uh, you know, just kind of trudging through life like most of us do, honestly. I mean, the, the, the people I'm trying to address now are the people that like me in my . Prior life who were, uh, kind of muddling through . You know, answering emails and going to soccer practice and doing living life, you know? But not in a particularly focused or, uh, uh, directed kind of way. Yeah. Really kind of more of a reactive kind of thing, which I think we, we tend to do, you know, we, we tend to react to, and, and, you know, things fill our day that fill our day. And, and rather than us being particularly, uh, uh, programmed about that. Yeah.
GEORGE (11:44):
So I think this is one of the reasons for this conversation. It's, yes, we're gonna talk about Thanksgiving Foundation, but you know, good God tries to focus on the common good . And on how our faith or some source of values drives our participation in the common good. And I think, I talk to a lot of people like you, Kyle, who are at a place in their life of transition . They've, you know, spent the first half of their life becoming successful, and now they want to become significant . And so, but they don't know what to do. They don't know how to make that shift. And there is a kind of shift that has to take place. Uh, how did you do that? What what would you share with people is important in, in that process of
KYLE (12:33):
Discernment? Yeah. Well, first of all, I'm, I'm very fortunate in that, uh, in my, when my journey came to a, an abrupt halt, and, uh, but I didn't feel like I needed to just sit on the couch or go play golf every day. I, I felt, uh, I had this, uh, uh, opportunity as a result of some friends that were on, on the board . That, that, uh, you know, I'm not sure that I was really in touch with . Um, you, my desire to do this as much as this all kind of happened at the same time. Yeah. And I became, you know, I, I became in touch with the fact that, uh, this was a, a blessing for me to be able to sit and, and be introspective about where I I had been and where I wanted to be. . And, uh, to create, you know, take an active participative role in creating that quality of life, creating that, uh, experience that Yeah. That I thought would, um, you know, make, give, make, give me a richer life. Well,
GEORGE (13:41):
So in, in a sense, what you're saying, I guess, is it's not necessarily you come to a point and then you sit down and you evaluate all the options out there. You're probably more responding to relationships and opportunities that come your way. And you also don't have to go to school to retool you in a sense. You're, you're taking what you've already learned to offer, and then you are in a process of receiving and being changed by all of this, is what I hear you saying.
KYLE (14:11):
Yeah. I think so. I think that that, um, that point of discernment that comes, uh, just becomes an opportunity if you'll take it. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, you know, um, you, there's, uh, the Bob Buford book on second half That's right. And there's the mm-hmm. The, uh, David Brooks book this the Second Mountain. Yep. You know, those, you know, I explored all that stuff Sure. And, uh, had a non-compete, so I wasn't gonna continue to do what I was, had been doing. And so, um, you know, I was gonna learn and do something new. And, and nonprofit work. . Uh, I, I say, you know, it's uses a lot of the same skills that you use in business, but you keep score differently.
GEORGE (14:55):
Okay. Talk about that.
KYLE (14:56):
How
GEORGE (14:56):
Do you keep score in nonprofit work?
KYLE (14:58):
It's, it's better. Yeah. <laugh>, it's, it's, uh, you know, you're, it's not, uh, it's not a p and l. Yeah. It's a community impact. Yes. And so,
GEORGE (15:09):
Uh,
KYLE (15:09):
That ability to, uh, influence and improve people and, uh, people's lives and, you know, to try to, uh, have other people see the, the value in the journey that I've seen. Yeah. Uh, and be in the places where I've gotten the privilege to be and know the people I've gotten the privilege to know. Uh, it's just been a blessing. George, you've been a blessing to me. There's a number of others that thank you that have, uh, you know, helped me . Through this journey to understand, you know, what it is that, how to think about these things. I mean, I was thinking this morning, I, you know, I, I'm not sure I've ever had an, that there are any original thoughts anymore. It's, but, but if you're open to learning Yeah. And, you know, from, uh, people in the community or books or, you know, uh, you know, the, the many resources that are available to us, you know, I think it, it's been transforming for me.
KYLE (16:07):
You know, I've, I have, I'm a different person than I was before, and, and I'm, and, and it's, you know, the, the word journey gets overused a bit, I think. But it, it is a bit of a personal journey to be, um, to, to find what it is that that kinda lights you up and, and, and brings meaning to your life. And then again, I, the privilege I have is I get to what I learn, I get to talk about. I get to, I get to bring to people in, in their experiences at Thanksgiving Square.
GEORGE (16:37):
You know, I think about the nonprofit sector and the, this is, this is somewhat unusual, our country, uh, over against other nations where we have such a strong nonprofit, uh, fact, a sector . Of, of our community. And in a sense, it sits as a kind of buffer zone between the state and the individual, and then also as a buffer between the state and individual and private, uh, interests. So that it really is about, uh, focusing on wellbeing on the community, on how something is not just about, uh, taking advantage for an individual or a group, but, but how it, how it drives us toward each other, uh, to, to live together. And I, I think that's something that has to be done by intention. It doesn't just happen automatically, because I think that probably we all draw to people who are more like us. . Uh, it's a more comfortable thing. , . But when we deliberately foster these kinds of, of, uh, opportunities to know people who are different from us, from different parts of the city, from, uh, different ethnic groups and religious groups and the like, it, it is a transformative, uh, thing, isn't it? It
KYLE (18:14):
Is. You know, you, you, something you said about kind of the role of the nonprofits, uh, the, the country's founders . Uh, they believe that this experiment . Uh, this, uh, uh, experiment with freedom and, and democracy. .
KYLE (18:34):
Required a virtuous, uh, population. . That, that you couldn't be, that, that the, the government that would fail . That this experiment would fail . Unless the people pursued a, you know, virtue and, and goodwill. . Beyond and, and what I call virtuous self-mastery. Yeah. Uh, uh, beyond the, uh, uh, just the day-to-day, uh, evolution of things. . . . And so, you know, maybe that's the role of the nonprofit is to, is to, is to live alongside of the government . And foster that human development, if you will, that that virtuous self-mastery . And the things that, that, uh, uh, are kind of beyond the, the, the law and order that come with the, with the government. Exactly. And, and, and, and build the individual, build, build, character,
GEORGE (19:30):
Build. . So there's a passage in the New Testament that talks about, um, uh, about these virtuous qualities. And then, uh, the Apostle Paul says something to the effect of, against, such as these, there is no law. In other words, you know, you, you can't legislate, uh, morality per se. . You can legislate against evil. . A prevention of evil, but virtue has to be cultivated <laugh>. . And, you know, there's no law against virtue. . It's in fact, it, it, it's necessary that you, uh, you you have that, but, but where does it come from? Obviously it can come from religious traditions, it can also come from basic human ethical ideals and the like. But one of the keys, uh, and really the original vision, uh, that still is in place for Thanksgiving Foundation and the Square is gratitude. . Thanksgiving, obviously the, the name. So what role do you think Kyle Gratitude plays in developing and nurturing and fostering those kinds of personal and public virtues? Yeah.
KYLE (20:44):
Well, Cicero says, gratitude is the father of all virtues, is the, you know, the most important and, and the one that enables . Uh, all the others . And so, uh, I guess that's one thing is that the gratitude as a virtue is the thing that that really enables all other virtue to kind of come, come into focus and being . Um, you know, there, there is, I mean, I think we all feel the, uh, the, the warmth that comes with gratitude . And the enrichment, the life enrichment that comes with being kind of aware of the fact that, uh, you know, we are, we're not in this alone. . We don't, our good fortune is not strictly our doing, you know? . There are lots of people in,
GEORGE (21:33):
There's a givenness to, to life that we all have, that we receive. ,
KYLE (21:38):
. That, that come, that's communal. . That, that it's, you know, and sometimes you can point, well, you know, the, these things contributed to it, but a lot of times it's just the, it's just the environment that, that melting pot that, that helps us be successful and
GEORGE (21:53):
Right. So, and you know, I think if you pe people talk about keeping gratitude journals and things of that nature, because if you, if you keep focusing on the sense of thanks for what has been given to you and what you are sharing in this life, then the tendency to feel shortchanged, to have grievances, to nurture, uh, this sense of lack or this competitiveness as if there's not enough to go around for everyone and I have to get mine. You know, it, there's a kind of insatiability of that gratitude works the other direction, doesn't it? . It gives you a sense of contentment.
KYLE (22:37):
Absolutely. Yeah. You know, and, and you know, a good, I, I'm a big believer that that having a positive and optimistic point of view is, is an important, uh, foundation for a, a, a good life or . A quality life. And, and certainly gratitude is a, is a contributor or part of that . Is building that positive attitude. . Um, you know, you, you talk about, uh, what I call abundance. Yes. Uh, an abundance mentality. And, well, first of all, I like to, I'd like to think there's really kind of, what I say are two enabling, uh, things that allow us to do this work. One is, is abundance. . Which means basically there's enough to go around Yes. That, that we can make the pie bigger . That you can, you can improve your quality of life without negatively impacting my quality of life.
KYLE (23:27):
Good. I like that. Yeah. And that, and that. And, and in fact, in a healthy, uh, environment, in a healthy, uh, culture, uh, my quality life is improved when your quality life is improved. That's right. So, so that there's, there's not this, uh, dog eat dog. . Give, give and take. It's, it's a, um, you know, it, it's a communal kind of thing. . And then the second thing is agency. . I think that, uh, you know, we, we act as if we're victims of culture. Yeah. But we're really the architects of culture. Nice. And we really, uh, you know, we control that. We, we, we can, uh, affect culture by our, with our agency. . And we just need to, we need to accept that . And make a plan and, and use that agency to impact our culture.
GEORGE (24:19):
So one of the ways that we do that is through events, uh, like the National Day of Prayer, uh, luncheon. And, uh, again, it, it's may the first and this will air before that. And so if people would like to know more, if they have organizations that wanna buy tables or people to come, how would they go about that?
KYLE (24:40):
That's, uh, they can certainly go to our website, which is www.thanksgiving.org. If you wanna go directly to the National Day of Prayer, it's, it's then a slash ndp. Okay. Uh, but there's also a, a, a link right there on the, on the landing page. But, you know, we invite the whole community to be there. .
GEORGE (24:59):
And it, and it is, I dunno, how many do you expect?
KYLE (25:01):
600 people?
GEORGE (25:02):
600 people. It's an amazing, uh, event, uh, where you'll, you'll run into people of all kinds. . Uh, in, in our community, politicians, but, uh, business leaders and religious leaders and civic, uh, activists and, uh, all sorts of people. It's a, it's a beautiful,
KYLE (25:19):
We'll have our mayor, uh, we'll have the, uh, our new city manager . . Uh, both are, are speaking at the event. Uh, good friend of mine, George Mason's gonna speak <laugh>.
GEORGE (25:30):
Well, he's gonna pray. He's gonna pray He's not gonna really speak. Well,
KYLE (25:33):
That's speaking. Yeah. , uh, you're gonna speak, speak what your heart
GEORGE (25:36):
Says. That's right.
KYLE (25:38):
Uh, so, uh, and, and Talmage Boston is the, is the featured speaker this year. Great,
GEORGE (25:43):
Great.
KYLE (25:43):
Great. But, but it'll be a great event. Fun thing.
GEORGE (25:46):
Terrific. Well, Kyle, thank you so much for sharing your, your story and for inspiring us with, um, the transition that you've made in your life and the contribution you're making to Dallas. I know you have a big project to renovate. . And to, uh, rebuild, uh, after 61 years, uh, a, a, a facility that's kind of declined in just the natur e of time, usability,
KYLE (26:11):
And Right.
GEORGE (26:12):
Exactly. And if people are inspired to do that, you contact Kyle. Yeah,
KYLE (26:16):
Please, please.
GEORGE (26:17):
And he's fundraising for this. And, uh, it's a pretty exciting plan for renovation. And it's a, but it's also a beautiful place to go to, so, uh, remind people of where it is. Exactly.
KYLE (26:27):
Okay. So we're Right. You know, if you took downtown Dallas and took a pin in the middle of it Yeah. We we're Right. You've, you're at Thanksgiving Square, right? We are. It's a triangle that is, uh, bordered on Pacific Avenue on one side, ve on the other, and Brian on the third.
GEORGE (26:43):
And, and the dark rail runs right along the backside of
KYLE (26:46):
It. The central downtown, uh, uh, uh, stop is right there next door to us. . The Akard station. So
GEORGE (26:52):
It couldn't, couldn't be more convenient. Right. And it's a place of, um, serenity, a place you can go in the midst of a Hubb of the day. Right. And find, um, things to look at, um, uh, uh, a place of peace. And I think, uh, make, make it a tourist spot for you, even if you live in Dallas. I
KYLE (27:12):
Think it's the right thing. I I agree. George. People are afraid to go downtown and they shouldn't be. Yeah. It's, uh, the first time is, you know, a little perplexing. Yeah. You've been there lots of times. Oh yeah. You, you don't find it hard to get to Thanksgiving Square. I don't, no. So it, now
GEORGE (27:26):
Parking is not too easy.
KYLE (27:28):
Parking's not great, but I mean, actually there, free parking's not great there, but Yeah, that's right. As with, I mean, when you go to Clyde Warren, you pay for parking, you know,
GEORGE (27:35):
Every, every place. Exactly. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for all you do for Dallas and for, uh, the work of Thanksgiving Foundation at Thanksgiving Square. We're grateful, Kyle,
KYLE (27:45):
And thank you for what you do for me. You bet.