Faithful Dissent: What Would an Upstander Do? with Lee Michaels
Lee Michaels was already helping families outside the Dallas ICE field office with hugs, diapers, and rent checks when she decided to reactivate her law license. After years away from practice, she began filing habeas petitions for detained immigrants, only to watch the law change four times in a single case.
In this conversation, she and George Mason talk about what she has witnessed at the weekly vigil and the respite tent, why immigration courts are failing to deliver due process, and how a video call between a detained father and his daughter felt like ministry. Lee also explains how the Holocaust museum’s call to be an upstander became her moral compass, and why she believes anyone can be one, including parents who want their children to learn it.
Lee Michaels is a retired Dallas corporate attorney and former board chair of the Dallas Holocaust and Human Rights Museum. She now handles immigration habeas cases and volunteers at the respite tent behind the Dallas ICE field office, supporting the work led by La Colectiva.
Watch the video, here.
George (00:13):
Welcome to Good God, conversations that matter about faith and public life. I'm your host, George Mason, and I'm delighted today to continue our series called Faithful Dissent by welcoming my friend Lee Michaels. Lee, thank you for being with us.
Lee (00:30):
Thank you for having me. It's a great opportunity for me to speak.
George (00:33):
Well, it, it is for us to hear from you as well, because as you know, uh, we've talked about that we are living in a time when, uh, people have a sense of despair about whether there's anything they can do, uh, to change the, uh, social and political climate that we're living in. And I know that this is something that really matters a lot to you. And we have found ourselves, uh, together out at the ICE field office, uh, at the respite tent with our, our friends, uh, who have been doing that work. Tell everyone how you have gotten involved in, in, in that, in, in the immigration space and why that matters to you.
Lee (01:24):
I've always been, had a heart, I guess, for service in a way because I feel I'm privileged and, um, I, I've always felt so grateful for my life and I feel like I need to kind of pay it forward, so to speak. So I learned about the ICE work actually when you all were doing the vigil - Right. Outside of ICE every Monday morning. And I had lost a little bit of faith, I'll have to say, over these past few years. Um, I'd been watching the immigration, what was going on, and I started holding vigil and then I realized that they were doing more work behind ICE. So I have a law degree. I hadn't practiced for a long time, but I had started doing some naturalization workshops and just, um, I did a power of attorney workshop. So I started working with the volunteers back behind ICE.
Lee (02:12):
Um, my biggest challenge was I don't speak Spanish. Yes. Um, but I learned really quickly that a hug says a lot. And, um, so I started working back there, but it was just, um, devastating seeing what was going on with some of the families. And I realized I did have, um, a legal license. I was, I've been practicing in the state of Texas. Um, so I decided to get my, um, bar card reactivated to see if I could help in any other way. Um, and so initially that's how I got involved. But I have to say, like, as much good as I felt like I was doing, I would come home in tears a lot of the days because it is so horrendous what - What's happening back there. Um, but again, when you think about just giving someone a hug or driving a rent check out to them or sending diapers home with them, um, it, it really made me feel I was having some small imp act.
George (03:07):
Sure, sure. So for people who don't really know the language of vigil and behind ICE, let's - Oh,
Lee (03:14):
That's true.
George (03:14):
Clarify for them. So for more than a year now, we have been on Monday mornings, many folk, uh, have been gathering i- in front of the Immigration and Customs Enforcement field office in Dallas on North Stemmons Freeway. And you're all welcome to join us from 8:00 to 10:00. And this vigil is a kind of time of prayer and protest, I guess you would say. Uh, a way of saying, "We know what's going on in this building. We know what's going on in our country. And we are people of faith, uh, who believe that we should be treating our neighbors, uh, who are immigrants among us more humanely. And we don't, uh, sign off on this, this policy, uh, of enforcement." So that's been something that, you know, was sort of a, a low bar, easy in for a lot of people. We can go stand out there for two hours and whatever the climate and, and we can be there when people are passing by on I-35 and honking and, uh, and, and the affirmation of it has been really quite amazing, hasn't it?
Lee (04:27):
Yeah. I mean, as it, it has, it was kind of became my church. We start in prayer. We're all together. It's not political. It's about human rights. Exactly. And it's about humanity. And, um, and it's, and there's different faiths. Um, I'm, I'm from a mixed marriage. So I've, I kind of, I think for the first time I met you, I told you I cover pretty much everything. <laugh> Started as a Baptist, Episcopal, married to a Jew, raising my kids. One's Jewish, one's Christian. Um, and that was just a place where I felt like humanity could show humanity. Yes. We could show up and we could bear witness for the fact that we, everyone is human and we all belong here.
George (05:03):
Well, and you also had been, uh, involved in other ways in the community on that very point because, uh, there was a time when you were, I guess, chair of the board of the Holocaust and Human Right Center in, in Dallas. Yeah. And, and, and it's really important to recognize that when that, uh, center was created, the human rights aspect along with the Holocaust, uh, was, was put together. And, and say more about why that is.
Lee (05:32):
So, um, s - we've always had Holocaust museums. Um, most of have, have hopefully have been to one. Um, but the, the survivors, when they built the new museum, decided that they really wanted to, they wanted to honor the Holocaust and the survivors, but they really wanted to look forward and make sure that everyone, whether you're Jewish or not, understood how, how horrific it was and how it, it's actually happening in our backyard, so to speak. And so, um, when my husband and I got involved, that was one of the biggest things for me was the human rights aspect of it. Um, I think, you know, I've learned a lot about the Holocaust and we're still teaching those lessons, but we're also teaching kids who, from all different, um, racial backgrounds - That they can see themselves in some of the things that have been happening in our world, sadly.
Lee (06:20):
Um, it's funny, I was on the school board about the same time and things were kind of, it was COVID, things were kind of blowing up, all of the racial, you know, um, pressures in our country. I think it was George Floyd had been murdered at that time. And I was a little bit of an outlier on the school board and I kept, you know, whenever I'd be afraid to like speak up, I would say, our big thing at the museum is being an upstander. Yes. That's what we teach. We teach our students and I would say, what would an upstander do? And that has given me my moral compass and it kind of, I've taken that to the immigration - Space because it, it's sometimes scary and you don't, you feel a little bit out of your comfort zone. But everyone can be an upstander.
Lee (07:04):
It's a really, there's easy ways to be an upstander.
George (07:07):
Well, that's true. And so we, we've mentioned that one of those ways is the vigil, but you've also talked about, uh, what you've been doing behind the ICE office. And what we mean by that is, uh, for, I guess, again, more than a year now, uh, there has been a respite tent, uh, at the driveway behind the ICE field office where all of the migrants have to come in order to do their check-ins for their asylum process. And, uh, so our, our friends who have formed the nonprofit organization called La Colectiva, uh, they are Spanish speaking and they have personal experiences with their own status. Some of them have been in detention before. Uh, some of them are DACA. Um, fortunately, most of them speak Spanish. Yes. And, and that's been certainly helpful to us. We don't lead that. We are volunteers that support them because our understanding of, of this is that the people who are closest to the pain are the people who should take the lead.
George (08:26):
And those of us who are there to support should, uh, recognize their authority in making those decisions. And so we, we volunteer to help as best we can. Uh, but when those migrants come in for their check-ins, uh, they sometimes don't come out. Uh, they are separated from their families. They are sent to larger detention facilities. Eventually they may be deported. And so we wanna say a little more about the human rights aspect of this because you went back and got your, um, I don't know, certification to be a, to be able to handle habeas cases. And I think, um, you know, that's a, a Latin word that people don't fully understand and, and on all. Uh, say a little more about why a habeas petition is something that, uh, addresses human rights and dignity.
Lee (09:29):
Okay. Um, I'll try. <laugh> Yeah. So I, my background was a corporate lawyer. And then I kind of retired. I've done a lot of nonprofit work. But when I went back and started, I, I love how you talk about the women who started this organization are the ones who are in charge and because I often find myself as a, uh, elder, elderly, white, privileged woman, um, it's hard to gain people's trust, honestly. Yes. And so I do think that's one of the biggest impacts we've had as, as people, you know, Caucasians is being back there and, and trying to garner or, or, or gain people's trust. And I think that's been one of the most impactful things. That's a little aside. So when we, when I've started working back there, we would run into detainees who had gotten themselves out on habeas. There was this, um, t - I guess the, I mean, not to get too technical, but the immigration decided, immigration powers that be decided that, um, if you were detained, um, as a non-citizen because you did not have status, you were not eligible for bond.
Lee (10:33):
In the old days, you would get, if you were detained, you could get out on bond and you would, um, you know, it would, it would, you, maybe you'd get an ankle monitor, but you'd have some kind of responsibility that they know that you check up for your, for your appointments and stuff like that. And just to remind everyone, these were people who were going in and following the law. They're in the system. They are not, they're not, um, criminals. They're following the law. They're working. They're raising families and they were being detained. And they, you know, they were not being allowed out on bond. So, um, people realized that they could, they could file a constitutional argument under habeas corpus. It's a due process. Um, and it basically means give me the body, the body. Um, so that they're holding somebody without any legal pretense.
Lee (11:21):
And so you could file a constitutional argument. And so I felt like that was an easy thing maybe I could learn to do and could learn how to be an immigration lawyer. Um, or s - you know, a small part of the immigration. Yes. Immigration is very complicated. Yes. Um, so I went back and I got my bar re-certified, which means that you have to start doing, um, CLE, which continuing legal education, which is the worst part of being an attorney. Yes. Um, and I started, I worked with a clinic in Fort Worth and I've been trying, trying, trying, trying to help people file habeas. Um, unfortunately, it's not going very well.
George (11:59):
Right. And, and why is it not going very well?
Lee (12:03):
Well, f- first of all, the law changes every, literally every single day. I, I had one client, and my clients have been from Venezuela. They've come through the jungles, sometimes with children. They've been persecuted. They've gotten into the United States on parole that we have set up for them. We have allowed them in. They have been working. They have been upstanding, um, residents, community members. And both of these people were detained on, on their, during check-ins, or one was going through a marriage asylum, a marriage, um, interview. And one is in Oklahoma and one is in Texas. The Fifth Circuit does not allow bond. However, I filed my habeas, and two days later, a court case came down that said they would allow bond, which means you have to go through bond before you go through habeas. As we're trying to regroup, two days later, another circuit decision came down that said that they were repealing that and they were gonna see, they were gonna, um, listen to that, this whole argument in September.
Lee (13:05):
Basically, the law changed four times during my habeas. So we ended up filing a habeas and nothing has happened. He, my client was, um, May 28th was the day that he was detained. He's in South Texas. Um, we filed an expedited petition for habeas. His partner, his husband was having a mental health breakdown and ended up in a hospital. And, um, it just, the repercussions for the families is something that I've seen. And so, um, we're just waiting. I mean, I, I'm, I look at my phone 10 times a day to see if there's per chance someone, you know, did the right thing. But I think the judges are just sitting on these habeas cases. So that doesn't seem to be working. And then Oklahoma in the meantime is allowing bond again. So we did file a bond hearing for my client in Oklahoma.
Lee (13:57):
Um, I did the best I could in a bond hearing, my first and only hearing I've ever done on WebEx. But the way the law is set up, if you came into the United States with the government's permission on parole, you have a harder chance of getting out on bond than if you snuck across the - So I don't know. Tell me how that, you know, none of it makes sense.
George (14:18):
No, none of it makes sense. But, um, what's amazing to me is to listen to you talk about how the law keeps changing and yet the argument is the same when it comes to the people who are deeply affected, and that is you've broken the law. Well, what's the law? You know, we, we have these, these folks who were here legally on temporary protective status that our government allowed and then arbitrarily disallowed after they've been here going through the process. So now people who were here legally are said to be illegals and they don't know how to work the process. And it seems almost as if the more obfuscation, uh, there can be in the process, the, the more, uh, ICE is able to carry out its mission, uh, because nobody's there to stop them. And this is the, I think, frustrating challenge that we all face is, uh, a week doesn't go by, Lee, right, when somebody doesn't say, uh, "Here's the situation with my housekeepers.
George (15:49):
Here's the, you know, the, the, the people who have been doing my lawn for all this time or whatever." And, and, and this case is, these are good people. This is, this case, it doesn't matter.
Lee (16:02):
Or business owners who are paying taxe s.
George (16:04):
Mean - Well, all those things. Yeah. Right? You know, and, uh, and so what we find out is that every, everywhere we try to touch, because we want to do things legally and because in our country, the idea has always been that there should be equal justice under the law and that we are a nation of laws, not men or women, but, you know, in other words that, that we should not be able to have policies where people arbitrarily, uh, decide what's, what's right and wrong. We should all play by the same rules. We're not able to do that right now. So when you start talking about the immigration judges, I think that's an, also an important thing for people to recognize. What's happening with immigration judges, uh, when people go in for their hearings? Because people, I think, don't fully understand that there's a whole separate category of immigration judges that are not part of the wider legal system.
George (17:15):
They only report to the Department of Justice. Right. Right? And, and so now what we know is if you don't really play ball with the administration's policies and you're an immigration judge and you're trying to evaluate a case fairly, uh, if, then, then you are either fired or you are scrutinized about your record because the goal is not fairness and justice. The goal is deportation. Deportation.
Lee (17:47):
Simple as that. It's, I, the other thing I've, I started doing, um, was doing court observation. Yes. Which I think many people you know do that. And I did it in Dallas and I also do it in New York City when I'm there. And one morning I showed up at court and six judges had been fired - Just on the spot the night before. Yes. The courthouse was a disaster. Um, at the same time, there's 10 masked ICE people waiting outside of a courtroom for one person who they knew was supposed to appear for his court date. Um, so these, as you said, these are people who checked in and they've, um, they have court dates. They're going through asylum. They have valid as- asylum claims. And so the image, I mean, I actually got a dec - there are a few decent imm - or I've, I'm not gonna, I don't wanna make generalizations.
Lee (18:38):
I have actually worked with a couple of decent immigration judges who actually, this was their career with, were immigration law. So unfortunately, I mean, I kinda wish I'd gotten one who didn't know the law so well, to be honest. <laugh>. Um, but yes, for the most part, they're, they, they don't really necessarily know immigration law - The way they should. The, every single case is different. Every case is complicated. They're now doing these mass hearings where they're having 30 or 40 people in a courtroom at one time and they're reading them their rights. No one is really getting due process That's right. So the rule of law is gone. I mean - And that was my, that's my hardest thing working at the tent is when we would see things at the tent, like, um, I remember the first time I, we used to be able to, as you remember, go up -
Lee (19:24):
Accompany people up to the premises, go and ask. And I remember the first time I went to try to give some medicine for someone, some life saving medicine for someone. And, um, the, both the security guard was so rude and, um, would not, because I was in a family member, was, would not let me come. So I went back and I got my bar card. I though maybe I'll, if I'm an attorney, went back. Well, I wasn't that person's attorney. I wasn't representing them yet. And he balled me out and all I said was, "I'm not trying to game the system. I am trying to give life-threatening medicine to someone. There's no one you can approach-" No. "...to hold these people accountable." And I even though about getting some business people together in Dallas and I, I reached out to a couple people, um, to see if I could kind of bear witness what I'm seeing and maybe they would have a, a voice.
Lee (20:16):
And a couple of the people I, I, I met with just said that's, it's just not gonna work unless they're big donors. Yeah. Because it has become political, sadly.
George (20:25):
Sure. Um - And, you know, similarly, clergy used to be able to accompany people - Up to the door. And then, uh, we would pray with them. Uh, and it, it's almost as if our being there with our collars or our, you know,
George (20:42):
Um, kippahs or whatever the case may be, that signified some sense of spiritual or moral authority, and then prayer and accompaniment felt like a judgment to them. And I'm not sad about that. No. No. It, it is - Yes. In a sense. Uh, but what's alarming is the rudeness, you know, is, is the, the lack of respect. Um, the, the, you know, I, I've had them say, "What are you doing here? You don't, you don't have a place here. You shouldn't be here and, and go over there." You know, that sort of thing. And I'm like, "You know, I'm an American citizen. I, I, I am... You are in a government building that I pay taxes."
Lee (21:30):
Exactly.
George (21:31):
"This is not yours. This is ours. And who gave you the right to limit our access to our own government operations? This is an extraordinary time of authoritarianism that we are witnessing and people just, you know, shrug their shoulders, throw up their hands and say," We can't do anything about it. "And, and I think what you and I are trying to say here is that we may not be able to change immigration policy ourselves, but we can go vote.
Lee (22:07):
Yes.
George (22:08):
And we need to do that. Yes. And that's, you know, one step in that process. We may not be able to solve everybody's issues, but we can bear witness.
George (22:20):
And faithful dissent is, is partly saying this is morally wrong and we are not gonna roll over, say nothing and do nothing. Uh, we're going to stand up and, uh, say we are with these people and for them. And I think this is where that human rights piece comes in again. Um, and some of it is just about the history of scapegoating a certain kind of people. This is what, you know, we saw in the Holocaust, of course. We seem to be scapegoating brown people in this country right now.
Lee (22:57):
We are absolutely.
George (22:58):
And, uh, and, and, and when you scapegoat, you, you're, what you're doing is you're saying," All the anxiety that I'm experiencing about my own place in society is your fault. I'm gonna take that and put it on someone else, because if we can just get rid of these people, now I'll be relieved and things will be better. "Uh, but that is exactly contrary to the very point of this country in, in, in our history, right? And it is certainly contrary to our faith.
Lee (23:39):
It, I mean, I, and I, I feel like we, we've talked about, you know, I'm an attorney. I've been trying to do s - uh, taking a legal approach. It's not, as I told you earlier, it's not very successful. Mm-hmm. I mean, of the four people I've represented, two have been deported back to Venezuela. Um, and two are still languishing. Yes. Um, but what I have learned is setting up a, a video conference so that one of my, um, clients could see his, you know, five month old daughter and his eight year old, um, disabled child and his wife and have a conversation that I kind of, um, you know, managed as their attorney, even though I can't get him out of jail. That meant everything in the world to that person. Yes. And my, I got my daughter involved in it. She was my translator and she became, you know, she became very involved.
Lee (24:35):
So she sent diapers and a toy to this little boy. And that made a, what that did for this one family - Yes.
Lee (24:44):
Is, I mean, I'm not a minister, but I feel like that was a ministry. That was a way. Um , and I, I keep getting back to the hugs because about all I can do sometimes if I don't have my Google Translators hug. Shockingly, they want, they, they, they crave human contact at the tent. That's right. Right. I, I would, I was a little concerned about that in the beginning. And we're all, we're tears. I'm holding two month old babies - I know. While the dad is trying to figure out what to do because the mom was detained - Yes. And is now separated. And so any, you know, just a smile at a, at someone who's brown, who may or may not be - Um, an immigrant - Will go a long way right now in our country, especially in Dallas
George (25:30):
I'll never forget, um, praying with a young woman who was going in for her appointment. And after doing so, she was so scared, um, she fortunately came out. My shift had ended and I, I left and, uh, Sandra, I think it was, called me, one of the La Colectiva, uh, volunteers. And, and she said, "That woman came out and was looking for you because she wanted you to know that after her experience in there, you made her feel human." And, and, and I thought, you know, this is, this is what we're trying to do. Uh, again, it's, we would like to change all the policy. We'd like to, you know, to, to do this differently. But for right now, sometimes the most important thing you can do is to bear witness - Yes. To the image of God in someone else and to give someone the sense that no matter what anybody says to you, you belong in God's world.
George (26:42):
Whatever the borders are, you belong and you matter.
Lee (26:45):
Yeah. And it's, it's, you'd ask me kind of how, earlier how I got involved in the first place. And, um, and I was thinking about that. And I think your, my parents, um, even though we not, are not necessarily politically aligned these days, my mom used to, we lived in rural Tennessee at DuPont factory towns. My mom used to take, um, Easter and Christmas presents to kids who were much more less fortunate than us. And I, I just noticed that. Yeah. My dad would pick us up at school and take us out to talk to the migrant workers who were picking salary. These are little things - Yes. But they made such an impact in my life that my parents both saw everybody around them as not an other, but as an us. There it is. And we started doing that with our own kids, and now they're in their 30s, and they're both, they both volunteer.
Lee (27:33):
They both have that heart of service. And so I would, that would be the other thing I would encourage is to people, for people to sh - parents to show that - Good. To their kids. Great. Because we have generations of, of people who are gonna have to learn this so that we're not in this situation again.
George (27:51):
And you and I are at a place where our kids are older now, you know, so I think one of the things we wanna say is, it's not just show your kids when they're little. It's, you have an influence all your lifelong to bear witness and to be an example. Lee Michaels, thank you so much for being that example.
Lee (28:07):
Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for letting me have this time to talk.
George (28:09):
You're so, you're so welcome. And
Lee (28:10):
I, I love, um, serving with you. I'm so glad. It's so great.
George (28:13):
Likewise. Well, thank you for joining us for this episode of Good God. And until next time, keep the faith.