Faithful Dissent: Noemi Rios and the Neighbors Who Keep Watch at Immigration Court
Chicago and Los Angeles were making headlines for ICE enforcement. Dallas wasn’t, and a friend told Noemi Rios why: nobody was observing immigration court, so nobody was reporting on what happened there. Noemi had a six-month sabbatical and decided to start watching. She wasn’t sure she was allowed in on her first day. She was, since observing hearings is the public’s right. The group that grew from those weeks, Vecinos Unidos DFW, now guides people through a confusing federal courthouse, distributes know-your-rights information in English and Spanish, and supports families after a loved one is detained.
In this conversation, Noemi and George Mason talk about what she saw in those courtrooms, how asylum seekers are being denied the chance to tell their stories, and how ICE’s tactics at the courthouse have changed from last year to this one. She also explains why she believes voting alone will not change the culture, how her religious upbringing taught her to build community person to person, and what she tells new volunteers who want to help without causing harm.
Noemi Rios is a co-founder of Vecinos Unidos DFW, a volunteer-led group formed in 2025 to support immigrant neighbors in Dallas-Fort Worth.
Watch the video, here.
George (00:13):
Welcome to Good God, conversations that matter about faith and public life. I'm your host, George Mason, and I'm delighted that we continue our series of conversations with people on the subject of faithful dissent. And I have a favorite dissenter, uh, with us today, Noemi Rios. We'r`e so glad to wel- welcome you to Good God.
Noemi (00:36):
Oh, thank you so much for having me here. Yes. That's probably the nicest way that anyone's described, um, yeah, my ability to be a bit of a, a bit of a menace, I say, jokingly. <laugh>
George (00:48):
Well, uh, you know, when things are broken, having people who are courageous enough to say so and recognize that you take some heat for that at times, right?
Noemi (01:00):
Yeah. Yeah, you do. <laugh> Yeah.
George (01:01):
So Noemi is the co-founder of Vecinos Unidos.
Noemi (01:06):
DFW,
George (01:07):
Yes. DFW. Because there is a national body, right? I guess.
Noemi (01:11):
Yeah. I'll talk a little bit more about kind of the journey that we've been on - Please do. When we get into that. Yeah.
George (01:16):
Well, let's just get, start right right into that. Yeah. Yes. Let' talk about, uh, Vecinos and - Yeah. And, uh, Neighbors United, right?
Noemi (01:23):
Yes. That's exactly what it means.
George (01:24):
Right. And you all have been doing incredible work in, uh, drawing volunteers - Yes. Together, uh, to address some of the egregious, uh, inhumane activities that have been taking place in the DFW area with ICE enforcement. Uh, and, uh, we, we know you've focused a lot on the courthouse. Yeah. Uh, but you've done mutual aid work with them and, uh, tried to come alongside migrants who have had, uh, been disoriented by the changing rules and all that sort of thing. Yes. So tell us some of the things that led you to create, uh, Vecinos and, uh, and what activities are taking place right now.
Noemi (02:17):
Absolutely. Um, I think most folks who found themselves in an organizer function like myself, uh, would agree. You don't wake up and decide, "I'm going to launch an organization and we're going to be doing X, Y, Z." Really, it's, it's very organic. Yes. Uh, for most of us, we take a look at the community - uh-huh. And assess where there may be gaps. And based on where there may be gaps, if we have the skillset or some solution that we think we can bring forward into the community, then we work on that. But even then it doesn't, it doesn't form overnight. There's a lot of effort - Right. That goes into developing something sustainable that others can participate in. How do you scale it up and get others to come in and join you? So I had to sit and think long and hard after I realized there is a gap here in Dallas.
Noemi (03:14):
And I didn't realize this by myself. I had the help of really some wonderful women. I will always give them a shout out forever. Okay. Uh, because they've been in the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex specifically for the last, since the first administration where I, I personally had my awakening of - uh-huh. Uh-oh, uh-oh, we gotta get, we have to do more than vote at this point. Right. We have to figure out where people are suffering in our communities and what we can do about it. Right. So I sat down with a couple of these women, um, at the beginning of 2025. When I was lucky enough to be in a period of my career where I, I had a, a sabbatical, um, that I spoke with my husband. I said, you know, take, take a few months away. Want to volunteer. And I had volunteered before, so I said, I'm just gonna find some place that needs me and go put my time there.
Noemi (04:04):
So I sat with friends and said, "Hey, you know, where can I put my time? I've got about six months on my hand. I wanna do something that really makes an impact. Where can I go?" And one of my friends said, "You know, you're hearing about Chicago. You're hearing about Los Angeles." "You're not hearing about Dallas, and that's because nobody's at court. Nobody is at immigration court there." Right. So nobody's hearing what's happening and/or what is about to begin happening if it isn't already. So I showed up to court. I didn't know if I was allowed to <laugh> the first day. I certainly felt like I was breaking rules when I showed up and they kind of make you feel like you're breaking rules, but actually it's, it's the public's right to observe these, these hearings. And, um - uh-huh. There are great curriculums now that we've found out about that we talk about often.
Noemi (04:54):
The American Bar Association has developed a national curriculum. It's one of the pieces that we lean on to teach what the language is. What, what is the terminology inside of the courtroom? Yes. What does it mean? But the truth is public observation was just that first step for Vecinos. And that's why I say it's very organic. I didn't, especially not by myself, come up with all these things that we need to be doing. It was, all right, let's, let's go to court because friends told me we should. So let's go to court. We show up at court and we realize it's a mess. Yeah. It's a mess. The signage is awful. The, um, I, I'll, I'll call it the culture of how people are treated in that building. It's very kind of cold and clinical. Which building are we talking about?
Noemi (05:47):
We're talking about, uh, the Earle Cabell Federal Building on Commerce Street in Dallas where the ICE immigration courts happen. Um, so we showed up to observe and see what we could find out. And we see people lost. Why are they lost? Well, there's multiple hearings. There's multiple courtrooms and they're not all happening on the same floor. And different elevators take you to different floors. There's no bilingual signage. I think they've printed out some now because we've complained enough about it. Uh, but there were no, there were no resources. No way for you to get help if you got lost. And if you were lost even a minute late, a judge could and would often decide that you needed to be removed from the country. Right. Simply for being late. So we developed things like let's wayfind. Oh. Let's have people show up and guide folks to their courtrooms.
Noemi (06:42):
Let's show folks how to find out who their judge is. Um, Vecinos did that for a while. And over time we developed relationships with the community. They would reach out to us and say, you know, so and so was taken. So and so has been taken. Um, we would see it at times at court. We would see the agents pounce on folks the second they walk out of the, the hearing where either a judge would have dismissed their case or made a decision that still allowed them to appeal. And most times you have a due process that allows you to appeal a decision, um, which meant there, there really shouldn't have been an outcome such as we saw last year so many times where people were taking, taken away in shackles. Yes. Uh, dragged away. Their families, no idea where the car is, where are the keys?
Noemi (07:36):
Exactly. How do we, how do we even begin to locate our loved ones? So lots of questions, more questions than answers. And I think in investigating and double clicking on the questions - uh-huh. We started to come up with FAQs - Okay. For our community. He, you know, here's, here's what we found out. Here's what you will need in order to locate your loved one. Here's what you can expect when you come to court. Um,
George (08:02):
Yeah. Let me, let me see if I can narrate a little bit - Yes. The, uh, the typical circumstance that leads people to a court hearing - uh-huh. And what we're dealing with, because I think you and I run into people all the time who have enormous misconceptions about what's going on in the immigration space. Yes. Right? So to begin with, uh, the, the people who are typically going to, uh, their hearing in a courtroom are people who have been awaiting an asylum hearing. Asylum is one way that people come to this country. They, they come because they are seeking safety - Yes. And refuge from something dangerous that is going on in their own country, whether it's domestic abuse or it's political persecution - That is right. Or it's, you know, uh, uh, gangs that, uh, would threaten a family or a young person. And so the truth is that when you're seeking asylum, you don't actually have to go through a formal process in getting to America.
George (09:19):
You can cross in any way that you do. You can be dropped by a helicopter onto... Once your feet touch the ground, you can declare yourself seeking asylum. And immediately you are put into a system - uh-huh. A process that would lead ultimately to a judge evaluating your claim to see whether you deserve to be admitted and to, to be granted asylum in, in the US, and then begin the process towards citizenship and that sort of thing. That's right. But what we know is, uh, first of all, many people have enormous misconceptions and assume that anybody who crosses the border, including those seeking asylum, are doing so illegally. Illegal aliens. Yep. Language that is by itself dehumanizing. Yes. Right? Because no one is an alien on God's green earth. Thank you. Every person is created in the image and likeness of God. This drives me crazy.
George (10:22):
Uh, but, um, yes, there are people who seek refugee status and go through a United Nations process and they're in a third country and they are vetted and yes, they can apply to come then. Well, this current administration is hardly letting anyone in except white Afrikaners right now. Um, but, uh, we, we know that the administration has also basically said that people seeking asylum are simply denied that now. So the immigration judges are not being allowed to make judgements - Correct. About people's stories. They're not allowed to take the time to listen to those stories. They're even on a clock about - They are. About how quickly they can turn around and know.
Noemi (11:12):
The gamification of expelling people.
George (11:15):
Yes. This is, this is not a country that, uh, that ever understood itself as, as being an arbitrary place where the law didn't matter, but it's now the case that the law is being manipulated and, and flouted so that the outcomes which are always about deportation - uh-huh. Uh, are achieved, right? And so I think people don't really understand. They think, well, if you're going to a courtroom, we can trust the legal process and the people who are there. But that's actually not what's happening, right? That's correct. So when we are observers in the courthouse, what we are doing is bearing witness - That's right. To this miscarriage of justice and the inhumanity that's happening to people. Yes. So that they see that we see. Yes. Right? This is a witness because the border is not just a geographical one, it's a border everywhere in the United States among people.
George (12:30):
Yeah. And in the legal system, right? So, uh, w- w- what's happening now with Vecinos at the courthouse? Yeah. Because things keep changing.
Noemi (12:41):
Things do keep changing. Um, and we try to provide information that is helpful. We never want to fear monger. So I think in the beginning, the shock of having ICE show up without a warrant to a court that is not a criminal court. Right. It's a civil court. Um, and then the tactics that they were using to grab people and it almost felt like it was for the effect that it would have on everyone else. Right. And for the stories that they would take back to the community about how unsafe it was - Right. To show up to court. Right. And so now we've seen over a 30% drop off of people showing up to their court cases, and that was just as of April. That doesn't even account for now the mega masters, which what's happening is folks who might have had their appointments set out to the following year, 2027, they are now being summoned to come in next week.
George (13:38):
Right. Where, where a docket may have 100 people -
Noemi (13:41):
Or more
George (13:42):
Or more, uh, with the express concern of making this an express process, expediting the, the, the de- denial.
Noemi (13:53):
That's right. Uh,
George (13:54):
So we, we do not have a constitution in this country that says that only citizens are entitled to due process.
Noemi (14:03):
That's right.
George (14:04):
In our country, every person - That's right. Is entitled to due process. That is being denied right now.
Noemi (14:12):
It's interesting to see from my perspective as somebody who was born wi - in this country, so I have the privilege of being a citizen, but I've had the experience of family members ex - having that fear, even family members being taken, seeing how this country right now has allowed its laws to devolve into something. I don't, I don't know what to even call it. Yeah. Because on the one hand, they are criminalizing the status of people - Yes. Who came in with total compliance of what the rules were - uh-huh. Which means that they weren't breaking the rules. That's right. And now they're in a system waiting for a decision, showing up and being tackled. Yes. Or being even just targeted in the streets while their cases are open and pending. Right. So you're criminalizing these folks. But then at the same time, when they show up to court, they don't have the benefit of somebody who's being charged with a crime in this country.
Noemi (15:14):
Right. Where you have an attorney assigned to you. Right. Required. So now you're re-victimizing these folks in a whole different way because requiring them to pay for their own attorney when they don't, they, they are learning English at best, most of them. I have difficulty navigating the instructions that the judges try. They do, you know, they do try to go through here's the steps that we're gonna go through. Here's organizations you can contact for pro bono attorneys, which right now there's a shortage of that. Yes. So folks will find out very quickly after they leave the court and do their research that attorneys right now can cost upwards of $15,000 for an asy - for representation of an asylum case. And if you've already been detained, it's highly unlikely you'll find an attorney that can take your case. Right. Um, it's, it's very interesting to see.
Noemi (16:12):
Lately we have seen ICE return with very different tactics. They aren't showing up in the numbers that they did last year. Again, I - Are they masked? Uh, they are not masked. I, I do firmly believe that the strategy that they showed up with last year was about the fear that would be created and the ripple effect of getting people to not show up. Yes. Because what happens when you don't show up? And this is something that we try to publish frequently in Spanish. Not to persuade. Everybody deserves the autonomy to have, you know, agency and decide what they would like to do. But if you do not show up - uh-huh. The judge will make an arbitrary decision in your case. Right. And in most cases, they're going to decide that you need to be removed. Yes. That does put a target immediately on the household that you're registered at with the courts.
Noemi (17:02):
So I, I do believe that ICE did that last year for that reason this year, probably because they are being blocked right now from being able to con- continue that way. Now they are only showing up for specific names. And I even have issue with that because now what I'm hearing from folks, even, even well-meaning justice oriented folks, they will say, "Well, now they can only show up if the person has a record." "A criminal record." I still have a big issue with that because if that person does have a criminal record, then let's pursue what our criminal justice system is set up to do. Right. Let us take that case forward to a judge and have a warrant - uh-huh. Executed and let's take the steps to remove criminals from our streets through the process that is already established. Right. So to approach a person that is showing up in court because they did something and potentially in most cases paid the time for their crime - Right.
Noemi (18:08):
And now they're showing up in a completely unrelated civil matter - Right. Only to be tackled as a gentleman was last week, which traumatizes the volunteers, but traumatizes all of the people that are waiting to go in for their hearing next, because they don't know what's gonna happen when they come out. Right.
George (18:26):
And so this happens in courtrooms. It happens at the ICE field office when people are - That's right. Coming to have their check-ins while they are awaiting their hearings. That's right. And often they are detained and sent to detention centers and then deported just by following the rules - That's right. And doing what they're supposed to do. And it also happens because ICE, uh, goes out on raids. That's right. And tries to find people on the streets and in their places of business in, in, in their homes. And we're seeing an increasing number of people who are, um, mistaken identities. That's right. Uh, and they're citizens and there's no re - there's no restitution for the trauma that is, that, that happens to these people, uh, who are wrongfully, uh, identified. And so, you know, I think when, when some of us say we want to abolish ICE, uh, this is not like saying we want to abolish the police.
Noemi (19:35):
Right. It's very different.
George (19:36):
We're saying we want to abolish a, uh, a, a, a rogue force that is unaccountable to the public. That's right. And that is unnecessary. Correct. Uh, i- in, in our system. We didn't always have ICE.
Noemi (19:54):
That's right.
George (19:55):
And I think people don't realize that. You know, this is a, a post nine eleven - They're 23
Noemi (20:00):
Years
George (20:00):
Old. Exactly. Yes. And so, uh, this, this is not some sort of radical liberal, uh, approach on people's parts to say abolish ICE. It is about following the Constitution and about, uh, defending human rights, which our country, with all the language of our exceptionalism, uh, is, uh, is now becoming exceptional in the wrong way, you know?
Noemi (20:30):
Certainly. Certainly. Yeah. I, I do think there's also a, I don't know if we call it indoctrination or the normalization of conflating what lawfulness is - Yes. And what morality is. You know, it, something may at one point be written into law that is absolutely racist. Yes. And we've seen that. Yes. Something may be written into law that, um, is harmful. Right. And we've seen that. And so, um, that's not to dismiss the laws. I think a lot of what's happening right now is actually disrespecting our own laws, as you stated, our own constitution. Um, and those can be amended and those can be changed. Um, but morality - Yeah. Should not change. That's right. Valuing humanity should not change. Right. That should not be a blue or red thing. Nice. Um, so, you know, we, we, when we talk about abolish ice, I think this is where I tend to lose even folks who align with me in practice.
Noemi (21:29):
Because I, I, I reject the idea that one side of our political spectrum has produced ice. Uh-huh. Um, and so I, I, I reject that firmly.
George (21:43):
Okay. So this goes to, this, this goes to an important, uh, Noemi, uh, conviction. <laugh> And that is that you're not gonna solve this just by voting for the right party, whatever that right party is. That's right. Right. So we have an election coming up. And you have said, you know, voting is important. Yes. But if you want to change things, you have to change the cu lture.
Noemi (22:07):
That's right.
George (22:08):
So let's talk about how you change the culture, Noemi.
Noemi (22:11):
Yes. Yes. Well, uh, I'll tell you my take. And this is at the root of Vecinos and how we show up in the community. I've shared a few times, um, a lot of folks actually don't know. I grew up in a very religious household. Um, both of my parents were, were devout Christians. My father was like a junior pastor in our faith. Okay. Um, and I loved hearing Bible stories. When I was of age within that religion to start preaching the good word door to door as we would do. Oh. Uh, yes. Was
George (22:43):
This Jehovah's Witnesses? Yes. Yes. Okay.
Noemi (22:45):
Yes. Um, yeah, I've left the church. We've, we've, we've since, you know, decided to lean into spirituality a very different way as a family. Right. But at the time, um, it was one of the activities that I enjoyed the most. Fascinating. Because I, and it wasn't only because I had faith in what I was being taught from a religious stand - it wasn't just the theology side of it. It was what I was witnessing as a child. The connections that I was able to make and see other adults around me make, families would hear what we stand for - uh-huh. Would see what our community represents. Okay. They would lean into it. Yes. And then we would get to know each other. Yeah. And the next thing you know, we are gathering together as part of a larger community - Right. Working towards whatever our missions, our, our principles are.
Noemi (23:34):
And of course, I think as a child, I just, you know, I enjoyed making new friends. So it was always about, you know, expanding the, the network and making new friends. But that, even after I left the, the church, that taught me the value of connecting person to person. The value of, uh, I guess you could say, um, evangelizing. Yeah. Evangelizing the, um, the actions that you would like to see take place in your community, recruiting others into it. Right. Um, so Vecinos Unidos was born out of that, out of the idea that, hey, you know, a person can actually recruit another person and that person can recruit another person. And now you have a team delivering some kind of community service. Some kind of information or empowering people in some way. Right. We develop know your rights information. That was really the first thing we did was go to marketplaces and distribute information in English and in Spanish.
Noemi (24:30):
Uh, it was later that we ended up going to court. And then from there, we developed mutual aid - uh-huh. To support the families that were being separated - Yes. By these, these, these operations. Um, I think I was getting to a point, I was supposed to be getting to a point that I'm not getting tow ards anymore. Um -
George (24:49):
The, the changing of culture and how we do it.
Noemi (24:50):
Changing of culture. Yeah. The changing of culture. Um, so I, I sat and thought about what would it look like in society if we didn't look at voting as the way to solve this? Because in my lifetime, it hasn't appeared as though the needle has moved well enough one way or another. Um, at least not in the right direction from where I sit. So where, where would I put my time? If I am disillusioned in politics, disenfranchised, fine. But I'm not gonna cross my arms. What can I do? Um, and so that's where Vecinos Unidos came from. So I do believe voting is something we should do. Check your voter registration, by the way. Yes. Because I hear a bunch of names have been purged. So certainly do that. Certainly make sure that your neighbors are set up to vote.
Noemi (25:42):
It, it matters to have your vote counted. However, the actions that we live out every day, they set an example within our household. When we say that voting is the most important or the, the, the solution to changing society, we are writing off a whole group of folks. What about the 15, 16, 17 year olds that can't vote yet? Right. They are every bit a part of the fabric of our culture.m. The future. Right. They can participate in society as well. So when we say that voting's the most important thing that we can do, well, we've just excluded them from the most important thing that we can do. Yes. Caring for our community is the most important thing that we can do. Good. Undocumented folks, they cannot vote. Right. They are still an important part of our society. Exactly. Right. Folks who've lost their rights to vote for things in their past.
Noemi (26:34):
They're still part of our society too. Right. Right. So there are a lot of people who can't vote, who won't vote, and I still think that they should be counted among us - Of course. In the most important thing we can do, which is care about each other. What's affecting my neighbor? Well, I care about that. Yes. How can I help them? Right. Maybe I can't fix it. I'm not a savior, but I bet I could talk to two or three other people that will also care and we might come up with an idea.
George (27:03):
So one of the things that I think many of us have learned as we've sort of ventured out into, um, this, this world of advocacy and activism and, and the like, is that the people who are closest to the pain should be the ones with the greatest authority to lead, right? And so, you know, we, we, we are learning as best we can to, to realize that, you know, if, if it's, um, people who are, uh, we, we're trying to work with immigrants, then the people who speak their language, who understand their culture are the people who should tell us how can we be helpful - uh-huh. Rather than, uh, assuming that there's a, a, a sort of, uh, white savior that can come along and, and fix these sorts of things. Uh, but at the same time, uh, you, you, we have to work together, right?
Noemi (28:11):
We do. Yes.
George (28:11):
And, and so I think what I would wanna ask you is, uh, if, if you, if you're speaking to people who look like me - uh-huh. You know, what would you want us to know in how we become allies, how we get involved? And, you know, what's the jump in here, be careful there kind of language - Yeah. That you would give us.
Noemi (28:31):
I think you, I'm really glad you asked that question because that became the approach to how we developed orientation. Most of our volunteers are white folks. Okay. And most of our volunteers are actually retired white folks. <laugh> Uh, so a lot of our orientation and recruiting materials are built for people who don't maybe necessarily have a connection to the culture or don't, don't have a very close, uh, example of what an immigrant might go through. Um, because you can actually cause harm if you show up without knowing - Right. Inadvertently. It can be, you know, you can be well-intentioned and cause harm. Um, and so we did develop an orientation and we speak mostly to white folks. We're asking white folks because think about when court happens. It's banker's hours, Monday through Friday. So I'm very much looking for retired folks who - Yeah.
Noemi (29:25):
Generally, they happen to be folks in their 60s that are justice oriented. Um, a lot -
George (29:30):
I resemble all these remarks.
Noemi (29:32):
You, you do. <laugh> And a lot of folks are folks of faith, but we - Yeah. We have folks that are also of no faith. Right. We've had folks, and this I think is the beautiful thing because I don't preach religion. I think I, I think I focus more on humanitarianism - Yeah. First and foremost. But we've had folks come in, be completely agnostic or even on the brink of necessarily not believing. And after working with us and seeing the allyships that we have built, the partnerships with different clergy members such as yourself, they pulled me aside and said, "I honestly had never looked at churches... As a place where real change happens - uh-huh. Or where real good is done. I felt like it was just words. But now that I'm seeing how there are communities of faith that are leaning in - uh-huh. And getting involved and helping, actively helping Vesenos show up at court.
Noemi (30:30):
There are churches right now across Dallas that learned that our volunteers take coloring books - uh-huh. And little stuffies because children have to be at court too with their parents. Right. And that can be four plus hours of children. There's no, there's nothing there. There's nothing. There's just benches, there's no TV, there's nothing. So coloring books and stuffies and churches are maintaining these little cabinets for our volunteers to pop in and be able to bring some kindness into a space that has been - Nice. Made hostile with these operations.
George (31:03):
`and, you know, one of the aspirations for these conversations, uh, in Good God is to inspire people, uh, that they can get involved. Yes. That they can do something. Uh, and, you know, what, what you've told us is that this grows out of your experience and it should with everyone. I mean, it, that, you know, you should look inside your own life - uh-huh. And realize, you know, what matters to you. Yes. And, uh, and then get involved where you can. So if someone wanted to become involved with Vecinos, how, how would they do it?
Noemi (31:39):
Um, so any of the social media pages that we have, which we go by Vecinos Unidos, DFW. Um, we will be announcing some, some new exciting things - Okay. In the very near future. But for now, you'll find us there. Great. And you'll be able to find a list to sign up, put your name on the next orientation where we'll announce, hey - Great. Here's where you meet us. Okay. Where we prepare folks on what it's like to show up to court. But we also give a big caveat nowadays. We are not just about showing up to court. Right, right. So if you do not have availability Monday through Friday, we can certainly use your time. We can certainly use your skillset. There's a ton that happens outside of bankers hours that happens remotely, especially in mutual aid. The conversations that we're having with families after somebody's already been taken from the household, these things aren't happening Monday through Friday at court.
Noemi (32:30):
So if you're interested in being of service to your immigrant neighbors, I think Vecinos is a great place, but there's also so many great places right now in Dallas.
George (32:39):
S ure. Sure. Wonderful. Well, if you do look for Vecinos Unidos, uh, you'll, you'll know you're in the right place when you see the monarch butterfly.
Noemi (32:46):
The big monarch butterfly, yes. Yes. I'm so proud of that thing. <laugh>
George (32:50):
Which is a symbol - Yes. Of, of freedom. And also I think of the, the journey, uh - Yeah. That they, they have to, to Mexico and - Yes. And, and back. And so there's a kind of freedom - Yes. That it represents, right?
Noemi (33:06):
Not only the freedom, but also, and, and the reference to Mexico so much so, but also a reminder that it is natural to migrate. Lovely. Lovely. It is natural. Mother nature does it. Lovely. So -
George (33:20):
Every religion started as a migration story too. That's right. It's an amazing thing.
Noemi (33:24):
That Is right. Yeah. That is right. Yes.
George (33:25):
Well, Noemi Rios, thank you so much for being a faithful dissenter - Oh, thank you. And for giving inspiration to us. We're grateful for all you do and - Yes. We'll pray for you and encourage you.
Noemi (33:35):
Thank you so
George (33:36):
Much. Thank you. You're very welcome. And thank you for joining us on Good God. Until next time, keep the faith.