Living Faith: Almas Muscatwalla on Pluralism, Service, and the Power of Community
Faith isn’t just a belief—it’s a way of life. Almas Muscatwalla, a dedicated interfaith leader and advocate for social justice, joins Good God to share how her Ismaili Muslim faith calls her into service. In conversation with George Mason, she reflects on the meaning of pluralism, the importance of understanding across differences, and the role of faith in shaping a more just and compassionate society.
Muscatwalla co-founded Faith Forward Dallas at Thanks-Giving Square to bring faith leaders together in action on issues like homelessness, racial equity, and refugee support. She has served in leadership roles with the Texas Muslim Women’s Foundation, Project Unity, and the Center for Asian Studies at UT Dallas, among others, working to build bridges across communities and create lasting change.
Watch the video, here.
George (00:00):
Welcome to Good God, conversations that matter about faith and public Life. I'm your host George Mason, and I'm delighted to welcome to our program today, Alma Muscatwalla. Uh, she is a tremendous, uh, advocate in the Dallas community, uh, who is serving the public good and doing so primarily as a volunteer. In fact, uh, and Almas, uh, comes from the Muslim, uh, religion. Uh, the particular sect of Islam is the Ismaily Muslim. Uh, and we're gonna talk about that in a few moments. Uh, but Almas, it's a delight to have you. It's always been fun to work with you in the community, and I'm so glad that you're having this conversation with us.
Almas (00:46):
So, first and foremost, I must thank you for having me. I'm absolutely honored because you know, George, how much I love you <laugh>, and I respect you. And while you may want to know my journey, uh, with Dallas and with the North Texas community, I think that you are a key factor responsible for some of the things that I have learned and cultivated. Uh, and so, you know, there's a, there's this kind of mutual respect and imagine two friends coming together, sharing, you know, uh, how important our work is for the community. Yes. But how it is also rooted in our faiths, right? So it's just incredible. So thank you for having me. I'm extremely honored to be here.
George (01:27):
Well, I'm so glad. That's wonderful. Well, we first got to know one another, uh, at Thanksgiving Square. That's correct. Where, uh, you were, uh, working not only with the interfaith, uh, council at Thanksgiving Square, but you also became the executive director of what was called Faith Forward Dallas. That's correct. Which were faith leaders that had come together. And that group is barely hanging on now ever since you've left, you know. Yes. Uh, but, uh, nonetheless, we, we worked together in that space, uh, trying to bring together, uh, different, uh, faith leaders in the community, clergy and other active persons. Uh, and what we wanted to do is really practice pluralism, right? . That is to say that, uh, we want everybody's faith tradition to be represented and to be active. And the fact that in Dallas, Texas and a smiley Muslim woman was leading that group is really a beautiful step forward for us. How did you get involved in that?
Almas (02:35):
Oh, man, this, this, that, this question just kind of brings back some amazing moments in my life. So, as you very rightly said, that, um, I was subbing, you know, for someone who was on the Interfaith Council, uh, at Thanksgiving Square, right. And it led for me then becoming a permanent me member of the Interfaith Council to then me being invited to serve as the vice chair, and then the chair, and then non kind of voting member on the board of Thanksgiving, and then a voting member, <laugh>, and like, and, and, and, and that just speaks to, I guess, somewhere where there's a reciprocity somewhere. I feel like Thanksgiving Square was living up, you know, to their kind of value of inclusion, right. Uh, it was a need of the day at that time, you know? Yes. You know, so I, I see that kind of as an opportunity, but at the same time, you know, I, I come from my, my ethics and my values where I show commitment to the things that I do above and beyond.
Almas (03:41):
Yes. You know? Right. And so it kind of really came across, you know, it came together really well, that inclusion and my commitment to inclusion, but at the same time, my work ethic, you know, and my commitment to that kind of work. And I think then it led for me, um, where I was beginning to realize that Interfaith Council was made up of some clergy group and some lay people. That's right. So not necessarily every lay person had the capacity to take back what they were experiencing back to their congregation. Right. So it was like one person representation on the Interfaith Council, and that's when kind of the Faith Forward Dallas, you know, was originated. I remember knocking at each kind of congregation's door and inviting each person, each kind of clergy member, you know, to come and join. Yes. Uh, Faith Forward Dallas.
Almas (04:34):
And you have played a critical role in the . In like the time when the leadership was very, very critical. But . In my early kind of stages, I had Bob Roberts . You know, from Keller Baptist Church. I had Robert Hunt from smu. Right. Who kind of facilitated, because they were very clear that a non clergy person, you know, driving this with kind of clergy . You know, is not gonna play out very easily. They were trusting my vision, but they, they definitely wanted to anchor this conversation vis-a-vis someone who can kind of present, you know, the mindset of the clergy group. And that's kind of where everything originated. And I feel like you're very right. The key to the entire process was pluralism. Yes. I think it was so rooted, uh, because we had people on Faith Forward Dallas. Some of them were pro gun, some were, and you know, opposing gun policies.
Almas (05:34):
Yes. Some are pro-life. There were some people who were pro-choice . And we sat on across the table . And still went above and beyond our differences Yes. To see like a larger good. And I think the piece that probably the whole cycle of pluralism did not complete in that space, that in hindsight that I can talk, is that we were diverse in our theology. . We came from different denominations . We were acting in response to some of the crisis. But I think the understanding of each other's diversity . Was still kind of missing somewhere. Mm-hmm. I don't, I'm not talking about accepting each other's diversity, but being able to understand each other's viewpoint. And I feel like, um, the crux of pluralism, as, you know, my spiritual leader has, Highness would say that diversity is the reality of life. We are born different by default. Mm-hmm. . We weren't given a choice for me to be born like this. And the way you are born . But pluralism is when I make an effort to get to understand you, to the point that I create a space between you and I that we can coexist harmoniously. Yes. And once that space is created, we actually start to hurt when the other hurts.
George (06:59):
So this goes to a conversation you and I had, uh, at the beginning of our relationship when you invited me to come and speak about my journey. And the subject was really about compassion. Yes. Um, empathy, compassion. And this is exactly what you're talking about. Right. Because, um, you know, when you look at all of our religious traditions, um, people interpret who God is and what the heart of religion is differently. . And it's not a difference that is necessarily Christians versus Jews versus Muslims versus Hindus. It's often Christians versus Christians, Muslims versus Muslims in newspapers. In, in, in other words, at the heart of the tradition that you and I share, is this idea that the very nature of God is compassion. Yes. That, that God's, uh,
Almas (08:08):
Personifies,
George (08:10):
Personifies this compassion, this sense, and, and for a Christian, uh, this is, uh, most beautifully represented in the idea that God has come to be one of us. Yes. You know? Yes. In, in, in Jesus who is the Son of God. And so we say that this is a, a perfect example of how we are supposed to walk in someone else's shoes, live inside someone else's skin, feel what other people are feeling to know from the inside out. Right. And as I have come to understand Ismaily Muslims, this is actually the heart of your faith tradition. Right. Because, uh, I want to ask you to, you know, say a few more words about that. But as I understand it, there is, you know, in Islam there are different denominations, you might say, and some of them tend to stress the external rules of, uh, things like, for instance, we are in Ramadan right now . And many Muslims across the world are fasting during these days. Uh, but in is Ismaili, uh, tradition, uh, the importance is more on the interior, the the esoteric. The esoteric rather than the esoteric. Right. Uh, that is the, uh, what's happening in your, um, spiritual life, uh, rather than just in the practice of simply depriving yourself of food. How does that translate in terms of your spiritual life? So, uh, take us a little bit into Sure. Who a smiley Muslims are Yeah. And where you fit on the worldwide scene of Islam.
Almas (10:01):
Absolutely. Absolutely. I think, um, um, so first and foremost, as historically, I like to kind of situate the history part of it right after the death of Prophet Muhammad. Peace be upon him. Um, the authority, who's the successor who's gonna succeed after Prophet was a critical question that the community was kind of encountered. And that's kind of where, you know, the community was trying to kind of grapple with that question and come with a kind of response. Uh, so that's kind of where you would say that, you know, not immediately after the death of Prophet Mummed, but way after Yes. You know, uh, their formation of two large, you know, interpretations of Islam emerged Yes. In a, in a kind of span of time. It didn't happen immediately. One school of thought, which is the Sunni interpretation, believes that right after the death of Prophet Mohammad, it was the Caliph, you know, uh, the, the ruler, you know, that was responsible to lead the community that was Abu Bakr.
Almas (11:02):
And, and the notion, uh, was that the authority was in, in the, in, in that sense, kind of secular. Yes. But at the same time, they believed that, you know, prophet left, um, you know, um, the Holy Quran, his words, which is the Hadith. Yes. Right. His kind of, and his Sunnah, the way he conducted himself. Right. Yes. His entire disposition . Became an anchor for the entire Sunni community. Yes. Right. Whereas the other interpretation, which is the Shia interpretation believed that prophet Allah ordained prophet to declare a successor. . Which was Ali, you know, prophet's son-in-law. . And for the Shias, it is the first Imam who was declared at Khumm to be . The successor. Yes. And the first Imam of the Shia community . And so the notion of authority is what causes Yes. The two interpretations to emerge, because one was relying on the authority of the Quran on the authority of the secular Ali .
Almas (12:08):
And also on the authority of, um, the scholars, you know, as, as history kind of speaks to that as well. But as far as Shias were concerned, they were, they had a, you know, present imam who was guiding them, you know? Yes. Uh, so that's kind of the notion. Now, interestingly enough, uh, in sheer interpretation, we've had several splits. Yes. Right. Several kind of other denominations. And there are three major kind of interpretation. One was, you know, how, uh, I don't wanna kind of go deeper into it, but there's like a Twelvers who believed Imam until the 12 Imam, and their Imam is in Occultation who will emerge on the day of judgment. Yes. That's kind of one interpretation. They're the Twelvers, and you, majority of the Twelvers, you'll find them in Iran, and you know, those places. And the second interpretation, the branch, the split that happened was, uh, after the 21st Imam, where again, you know, there's a, the, there's a split again happen.
Almas (13:09):
And that kind of denomination of Islam, or Shia Islam is called Bohras. The, they, they're Dawoodi Bohras, you know, (SHE MENTIONED ANOTHER Bohras, but I can't draw it out) . so that's kind of another split that happened. So, and interestingly enough, then it is the Shia Ismailis. Okay. Shia Ismailis who are also called Nizari Ismailis. We are the only interpretation, Shia interpretation, who have continued the lineage of that Imam through our present Imam, which is the 50th Imam. Yes. You know, Hasan Ali Shah. And, and so the notion of the Imam in the Shia tradition is that he's responsible to interpret the faith, but also to be able to improve the quality of life of its community. And what makes Shia, uh, Ismaili's distinct, is having this present living Imam Yes. Who, who 's called Hasan Imam. . Which means present imam and a living Imam who guides the community according to the time. So there's a context. So
George (14:18):
Would it be fair to say that whereas Sunni Muslims and some, uh, like the 12, Shi'is, have a tendency to want to interpret for the community how it lives based upon the past, based upon, uh, their history and interpretation of the Koran and the like. Uh, and they want the culture to reflect how it was, there is more of a living present interpretation about the current times that the Aga Khan your spiritual leader, is interpreting for the Ismaili community.
Almas (15:08):
Absolutely. And I would, I would like to just say that as you know, and you have met several of the Imams . From the Sunni interpretations, and so each of these imams become the scholars Yes. You know, of that particular mosque, and they become like in-house scholars, but they become the custodian Yes. Of that particular, you know, congregation . And I think, uh, one thing that I would like to say, rather than generalizing the analysis that you just made, because I would under, we would undermine the larger value of the Islam. Okay. Which is Islam is a thinking faith. Yes. Islam is a civilization Yes. Rather than a monolith. Yes, yes, yes. Right. And so there are 1.8 billion Muslims that we are talking about. Yes. If you were to narrow it down and, you know, explain it, you know, like the way we are trying to kind of . Make sense of this 1.8 billion people, we would be doing unjust to the cultural nuances Yes. That are kind of tied. And the diversity that is prevalent Right. Within, within, which
George (16:18):
Is the same within all of our religions. I mean, it, it would be very difficult to just say, all Christians believe this or Exactly. You know? Okay. So having said that, um, this, this interpretation of faith for you motivates your service. Absolutely. Uh, and I think one of the things we want to say to people is, uh, that, you know, there are, there are lots of other Ismaili Muslims who are not nearly as active in the community as you are. Uh, and there are a lot of Christians that are not nearly as active as I am, say, for instance. So what is it about your personal experience of faith that moves you into these areas of service?
Almas (17:05):
First and foremost, I must say that it comes down to like, the way I was brought up and how it, it goes back to my childhood. . But to large extent, um, his highness, the Han who's the 49th Imam who I experienced for most part of my life. Yes. Like, majority, I mean, it's just the flight. He just recently died. That's right. Wind of like, you know, 15 days that I'm experiencing, you know, my 50th imam, my entire existence Yes. Is rooted in his guidance. Yes. And, um, and, and so, uh, everything that I have done . Everything that I do is anchored in my faith. And it, it partially goes to his guidance Yes. In the way he guided and the kind of probably, you know, as I say that I think about things . I, I take it to my heart, to my soul.
Almas (18:03):
And somewhere I think I want to reference, preface this part where my mom, um, it's a story. Okay. Yes. But it's an important one because it really, really situates kind of what makes me unique, and which is where, like, my dad had six sisters . And we were two, you know, me and my sister were born. So my dad was responsible for eight women in his home. And my, uh, so my brother was born before me, so after six sisters and my sister being there, my brother was born. So they were done as a family. It was like, that's all that I can manage, like six sisters and two of my kids, one daughter, one son, good to go. Let's kind of wrap it up. But I was conceived. Yes. And so my mom says this, it's a funny story, but she said that she tried really hard not to have me.
Almas (19:02):
So, oh. In, in good old days, like she, she kind of tried not to have me. But then once I was born, yes. Despite her trying hard not to have me, uh, after I was already conceived, she just thought that I was created for a bigger reason. Oh. It was not just my, my birth is not tied to just physical, you know, birth. It has a bigger meaning. Okay. And it has a different purpose in my life. Lovely. And I think she, there's a tradition in our faith tradition where, where you, you know, it's a, it's a part of every tradition Right. To, you know, you say in larger Muslim context, we say zakat, which is like offerings mm-hmm. That the Muslim makes. But in our context, you know, there's some kind of offering that we offer to Imam of the time, and my mom offered me as that zakat or as that offering Wow.
Almas (20:06):
To Imam of the time. Okay. To Imam Karim. Yes. That this is the person that I'm, who's gonna be devoting Wow. Her entire life Wow. At the service of the community. Yes. And, and somewhere that, to a very young child growing up Right. Gave a purpose Well, which is way different than something that you cultivate through your education or through your life, you know, through your other experiences. Yes. Through your educational, academic experiences. Beautiful. This experience was completely different. And my entire life, she had no qualms to share that story with me. Yes. And I lived through that story, but each time it reiterated and reconfirmed my purpose in life to be able to serve Yes. The community, and, and then to have a faith tradition that supported my existence Yes. So beautifully. Right. Uh, where, where, uh, ethics are important, rituals are important, but not to the point that it suffocates me. It is a very liberating faith tradition where, where my actualization of my potential is as important as the such that, or the offering that I give in a ritualistic form. Yes. Like, it, it, you know, rituals are important, but my, my actualization to my ultimate potential is, is an expression of my faith. Learning and growing and becoming a person that I was destined to become is part of my faith. And that's kind of,
George (21:48):
Well, and I think many, many people listening to this will probably be surprised that there is a, a Muslim community that celebrates and promotes women Oh, yeah. To take this leadership kind of role. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think it's important to say, now you are involved in Dallas Responds, uh, which is a welcoming, uh, ministry, uh, to immigrants. Now, uh, I think most people listening to you speak know that you, uh, live in North Dallas, but you really, uh, don't have a Texas accent, uh, <laugh>,
Almas (22:26):
I'm a hardcore Indian.
George (22:28):
You're hardcore Indian in, in a real India Indian real, yes. Real Indian. Yes, exactly. And so you are an immigrant yourself. All right. So, uh, how much of your immigrant experience, uh, connects to your mission to, uh, care for immigrants in the work you're doing?
Almas (22:51):
I think, uh, to the, to the core, right? I mean, uh, we, my mom lived with me for 20 years, and, um, she got her green card, um, after close to, you know, 20 years. And the first time when I took her to India, uh, she already had Alzheimer's . So she couldn't, uh, see or understand the same place that, you know, where she was born, where she grew up. And not only that, but, um, being an immigrant, and I was, I was one of the privileged immigrant, let me, let me kind of put that right off the bat, that, that, uh, it wasn't an easy journey because, you know, uh, uh, our, our journey as an immigrant was, as he wanted to do, my husband was more interested in doing business. . You know, he didn't come in a professional capacity, came more with the resources, you know, to invest and, you know, to, to create a business opportunity. And we, he supported his employees who became legal before we did.
George (24:02):
I see. Okay.
Almas (24:03):
And so it just kind of speaks to, uh, uh, uh, how broken a system is. Yes. Where, um, every time as my young kids would travel, so we were able to travel on that parole, you know, letter. So every time we would travel, we were always pulled in a separate room for immigration . And my kids would just not fathom that they're always . Kind of pulled on the side and Yes. Stigmatize that, you know, we are, we are doing something wrong. And, and after nine 11 being Muslim and the names Aziz and Musca wasn't easy. Right. Uh, you know, to travel where you, the scrutiny that you would have to go through was a whole different experience. So, so being an immigrant, this, this is very close to my heart, not just in my personal experience, uh, also through my lived experience of my mom, who was not even able to recognize her country, and she passed away a year after.
Almas (25:05):
Right. So there was not much time left for her to travel again and see, or, or travel when she had her senses. So every time when I look at the migraine, I can relate through that story because we came to this country to give a better quality of life to our children. . Coming from India, we, as I said, we were very privileged, but I think a privileged person also can come to America for a better quality of life, and they become contributing members. I'm an exemplar of an immigrant who's devoting her 24 7 to give it back, to make this city a better,
George (25:48):
I think in the current rhetoric in our country, politically, um, this is lost. We, it is, we don't see the defense of the, uh, immigrant as being a contributing member of society, offering something to the American culture. Um, how they are not just economically paying taxes and, and, and, and being consumers and, and, and serving, uh, economically, but they are also contributing as you are absolutely. To the common good, to, uh, you know, showing compassion and being involved in the community. Uh, and I, I think it's important that we begin to tell that other story, uh, because right now, um, the borders are closing and, uh, people are being turned away, and those who are already here are, uh, are often not appreciated, uh, because of their sense of being different.
Almas (26:51):
Yes. Yes. And, and I think that's heartbreaking because, um, none of us can claim to be, you know, original residents of this country. Right? Yes. We're all immigrants in that sense. And I think our forefathers, you know, um, situated the value of this country, it kind of relied on this principle of welcoming the stranger and our faith traditions Yes. And encourage that as well. So I cannot fathom, and, you know, if sometimes I also take, be the devil's advocate and kind of think from logistics time standpoint . That like, you know, like think about, um, how many Palestinians have been received in Jordan. Yes. Or, or if further, you know, disaster happens in that, in that region, and we have this large segment of immigrants somewhere, someone needs to think about what is gonna happen to them, where are they gonna go? So if we were to look at this immigration policy, not from your territorial point of view, from your border point of view, but from a human point of view, yes.
Almas (28:03):
And look at it as a global issue. . That needs a collective, you know, decision making process. . Then our, our our, even if we were not anchoring . On how, how well, yes. You know, they can be contributing even if you don't like the idea . But you just have to logistically think Yes. How the world would operate. Yes. You know, you can, you can, you can push. So, you know, it's like a water, right? You create a dam, but if there's an overflow of the water somewhere, the dam is gonna break apart. Right. And you, you are gonna have an influx Yes. Of people, but, but can, are you, and that's kind of where the question is. The question is how well we are supporting being the country, the capacity that we have as a country. Yes. Are we doing, if you don't want immigrants, are you then contributing to those countries to improving Ah, okay.
Almas (29:02):
Their state of affairs. So they become self-sufficient. Yes. If you're not doing that, which don't cut off, which off U-S-A-I-D, then, then, then, then you are putting yourself up for failure, not just for those people because you're interconnected. Yes, we are, we are so interconnected, and Covid has told us that . COVID was the best example for us to recognize how connected this world is, and we are not recognizing that through these human body. Yes. Okay. And we are not collectively thinking and addressing that issue, and we are trying to be territorial, and it's not gonna somewhere that influx is gonna trickle Yes. Uh, in your spaces without you having any control, uh, of that situation. And so the point of the matter is, uh, while compassion and empathy and, and doing good and welcoming the stranger is the values that we want to anchor, but I would also encourage and invite people who opposed to the idea that there is, there is some collective thinking that needs to be done on this subject matter.
Almas (30:17):
And I feel, um, I feel there is, I don't see a body of people doing that. Okay. I just struggle to see anywhere, you know, and, and I think the only, only hope, because that's the only, uh, my, my 20 25, 2 words that I'm relying on is hope and curiosity. Okay. And in the midst of this, this trauma, I'm still want to anchor on hope that as my, my 49th Imam would have said that when your government fails, and then the democracies in these countries fail, the only, uh, hope for for everybody around is the, is the role of civil society. It's the role of ordinary people coming together, picking up the Lord and doing the good that they can. And that's where organizations like yours, organizations like Dallas Response, organizations like Dallas area, interfaith, I mean, until a collective vision is mm-hmm. Cultivated or developed, you know, for what, what our entire community or entire society is gonna look like, where do we see ourselves, you know, as, as a human society, until someone thinks about that, I think in our little spaces, we have to continue doing the work that we do.
George (31:42):
Well, you have just actually put the, uh, period onto this conversation because you, you've basically said what the whole purpose of these conversations is about an invitation for people to find where is their place. Yes. Uh, you don't have to solve all the political, uh, questions in Washington or in Austin, but you have a neighbor, you have a, a story that you can live and you have a faith that motivates you find a place to serve Absolutely. And do it, uh, with compassion and care for, uh, especially those who are most vulnerable, Almas Muscatwalla. You do that as a beautiful example to us. Thank you for being on. Good God.
Almas (32:31):
Thank you. Thank you, George. Thank you for having me. I appreciate you.