Voting Rights, Immigration, and the Fight for Justice with Eric Cedillo

Restrictive voting laws and immigration policies shape who has a voice in our democracy. Attorney and activist Eric Cedillo joins Good God to discuss his work expanding voting access, advocating for Latino communities, and pushing for immigration reform. He and George Mason explore the systemic obstacles that keep people from the ballot box, the political roadblocks to reform, and the power of grassroots action to create change. With the Super Mega Marcha approaching, this conversation is a powerful reminder that democracy depends on those who show up.

Cedillo is the founder of The Law Offices of Eric Cedillo, a professor at SMU Dedman School of Law, and a longtime advocate for victims' rights, civic engagement, and access to justice.

Watch the video, here.

George (00:00):

Welcome to Good God, conversations that matter about faith and public Life. I'm your host George Mason, and I'm so pleased to welcome to this conversation Eric Cedillo,, who is an attorney here in Dallas and, uh, actually, uh, working beyond Dallas, uh, because he is, uh, legal counsel to LULAC, uh, the, let's see, league of

Eric (00:25):

United, Latin American Citizens

George (00:28):

League of United, Latin American Citizens. It's terrific. Uh, and, uh, Eric and I worked together in the community, uh, faith Commons and, and Eric, and, uh, a, a group that we've helped to organize with the United Way, uh, that, uh, focuses on, uh, voting, registration, voting access, and those sorts of things. We've called it Dallas Votes. . And, uh, Eric, let's just start there, if we may. . Um, I, I think, um, you, you have been a, a, a past president of a group called March to the Polls, uh, seeking to get people out to the polls, young people in particular, but anyone. . And so tell us a little bit about March to the Polls and what has been your interest in, uh, voting access?

Eric (01:14):

. March of the Polls, uh, basically created by myself and, and Richard Marcus Yes. Individual who, uh, unfortunately passed away very recently. . Just a wonderful man, wonderful human being. Uh, I was actually with LULAC and, uh, working with, um, the League of Women Voters a few years back, probably about 15 years or so ago. . Where we would go into the schools and do registrations for, for high school seniors. So that was kind of our, our initial entry, uh, in, and then with March of the Polls, once we got that going, after about 2017, 18, we started actually taking over those responsibilities for LULAC and, and the League of Women Voters. . And became more ensconced and, and specifically in DISD, we were . Uh, developed a very good relationship with the superintendent and others to be able to go in there and actually, uh, do some registrations with them.

Eric (02:07):

And, and, you know, presently we're, you know, we're the sole, you know, contractee for, uh, going into the schools in DISD and, and a few other ISDs, uh, locally to register high school students, uh, in each of the, of the two semesters. . In addition to that, we've created what's called the Student Voter Empowerment Clubs that we have in many of our ISDs, uh, and, and specifically in DISD, I believe we have over 30 now. Okay. And those are clubs that we kind of, uh, uh, have the opportunity to allow students to civically engaged in, however they kind of want to, uh, learn that context. . We take them down to, uh, to Austin, down to the, uh, see the legislature and see how the, uh, how the, uh, sausage is made. Yes. Uh, and then just do a number of other things, field trips and doing things.

Eric (02:56):

Uh, they'll put together, you know, projects that we support. We've actually done some marching to the polls, taking students down, uh, at Woodrow and, and, uh, walking or marching down to, uh, to, to go vote. So incredible stuff that we're doing. In addition to that, we have a, uh, another component to March to the Polls, uh, which is sponsored by marches polls called the Latino Voter Empowerment Coalition. . And that's just a group that kind of goes out into, initially we were going door knocking . Telling people about the importance of voting specifically in those Latino areas where . You know, there just isn't a high proportion proportionate number of individuals voting. So we wanted to kind of engage in that.

George (03:36):

Say more about that. Why would you say that's true?

Eric (03:40):

Well, <laugh>, I think there's a variety of reasons why Latinos don't vote. And, and to be really honest with you, just kind of from my perspective in looking at that, I think the Latino experience here in the United States has been one of, you know, we kind of get by, uh, treated differently in a lot of ways, but if we can just kind of get by, uh, don't make any trouble . Uh, culturally, that's kind of something that we do. . And, uh, that's kind of passed on, I think generationally. I see. That's the reason for the creation of the LVEC Clubs. We were hoping, or the LVEC, uh, uh, engagement. We wanted to engage, uh, the older folks, you know, grandparents, parents . About the importance of it, because there's always been that disconnect. I think in many of our, you know, believe it or not, George, there is, at least in my opinion, almost two different worlds that we live in here in Dallas.

Eric (04:32):

Uh, we get our news differently. If you're listening to it in Spanish or radio. Uh, there's, uh, an import on certain areas of the news that, that, that, uh, people who primarily speak Spanish don't always get from what the English, uh, reporters are doing. So it is a, uh, it's a difference that kind of leaves people in, you know, just kind of a different world. There, there, there's, there's a lot of politicians who don't go door knocking because of that lack of propensity. And that's kind of the impetus behind getting engagement. You've, you've got individuals who are running for elected office doing the engagement. Yes. And they're gonna do it in those areas where there's high propensity voters, of course. And those are not, unfortunately, those Latino areas. So you'll go into some Latino neighborhoods, and they've never had anybody come door knock and say, Hey, there's an election coming up. Wow. So that's, uh, that's kind of something that is, you know, there's just a, because they don't vote <laugh>, they aren't pushed to vote. And, uh, and so

George (05:29):

It's says, catch 22.

Eric (05:30):

Exactly, exactly. That circular problem of getting out there. .

George (05:33):

And yet, voting is the most foundational, uh, activity of democracy, isn't it?

Eric (05:41):

Absolutely.

George (05:42):

And, and when people are voting, they are taking ownership, uh, of their citizenship.

Eric (05:49):

Absolutely.

George (05:50):

And now, uh, having said that, uh, we are talking about people who are actually citizens who are voting. There has been accusations that non-citizens vote, and you and I know that we have the statistics, and we know that that's not true. . In fact, uh, I was just actually looking this morning, Eric, and, and, and found that since 2005, there have only been 133 prosecutions of voter fraud. 133. . And most of those have been dismissed. . Uh, so we're talking about millions and millions of votes. . Why do you think there is such an effort now to make it, uh, more difficult to register, to vote and to vote in in elections? Well,

Eric (06:49):

Uh, really honestly, I believe that, uh, that there is a, a movement to maintain the status quo. . There's individuals who, who, and, and certain individuals, of course, you break it down into parties and the Republican party that, that want to maintain what's happening, what's going on. If you change, you know, access, if you allow for perhaps even younger people may not even be so much, you know, you're Hispanic or Latino or African American, it is younger people who have a tendency to vote in higher numbers in the Democratic Party. You don't want that to happen. So how do we disenfranchise, how do we disengage those individuals? Well, let's make it tougher. Let's, let's create obstacles that are problematic. As you know, in 2012 when voter identification came out, you know, over the last few years, people have said, okay, voter identification, that that's understandable.

Eric (07:37):

At the time, everybody knew it was gonna be incredibly disenfranchising to the tune of about 250,000 Latinos just in the state of Texas. We knew it was gonna happen. We had an incredible federal judge at the time, who, who saw it and did their, her best to stop it. Uh, unfortunately, uh, with what she came out in terms of her orders, uh, allowed for them to engage in, well, we'll, we'll make some concessions and we'll allow this to happen. But the disengagement, the disenfranchisement, uh, became a reality. Yes. Uh, you know, voter identification for us, of course, we have a driver's license. Of course, we have identification, young people don't. Yes. Uh, 18 to 21 year olds don't necessarily have that in the numbers that, uh, uh, that would allow them to easily engage, easily register, and then easily vote. So, um, we're seeing it more and more as, as we, as I believe we had talked about, uh, the SAVE act at the federal level. Yes.

George (08:35):

Let's talk about the SAVE Act. . Uh, this is something being, uh, proposed in Congress, uh, to, uh, increase the, um, requirements of voter identification. .

Eric (08:49):

Voter registration. Yeah. And that is the thing is we all know different states have different requirements for, for registering to vote. In some states, they make it incredibly easy. Same day registration. Yes. Hey, no problem. Let's register, let's go online, let's do all the things to make it simple, which it should be. This is just registration. It's not the actual act of voting, it's just the registration. In Texas, we know that, that we have to be registered to vote at least 30 days before an election if we're to vote in that election. So the voter ID that I had mentioned earlier, back in 2012, incredibly difficult for some young people to engage. Now, what the SAVE Act is requesting, and again, this is at the federal level, it's being, you know, bandied about the House and the Senate kind of as we speak, is a requirement that you actually have to physically go down into the Elections Department and register to vote and prove that you're a US citizen.

Eric (09:42):

. Now, believe it or not, that's not an easy feat for anyone. . You know, we may have passports, we may have access to identification that allows us to easily go in and just the act of going into the, uh, uh, to the, uh, voter, uh, uh, registration department is difficult in and of itself. But then to have a passport, which many young people, uh, do not have, and or birth certificate, a certified birth certificate to prove citizenship, the more obstacles you have, the more difficult it becomes. In addition to that, what this would do is just do away with, with, uh, you know, DVRs, uh, people who actually go out and register people to, to vote, uh, voter registration drives, which . Which we have. It would, it would, you know, decimate what things like March to the polls does, which is register, uh, high school seniors, they'd have to go down and actually take documentation to go do this. And, and the thing which I find, uh, most insidious is the law itself does it, it requires, you know, anyone who's changed their name because they've been married. . Certainly affecting women, and then, then others who done that. Yeah. This

George (10:48):

Is really important. This is really important.

Eric (10:51):

? Yes. Not to be able to go in there if, if their, if their birth certificate does not match their name on their identification, which is probably changed. Yes. Then, uh, that's not good enough to, to register. So they would need to have a, you know, they need to go down and make sure that they have, um, you know, proper documentation to, to, to be able to get their passport or utilize a passport if they don't have one, to kind of make that happen. 55% of Americans just across the board usually, uh, go to the DMV and do that voter registration, easily accessible, easily done, 55% that would no longer be, uh, something that they could do under the city back.

George (11:31):

So this is going to shrink voting . At a time when, if we're gonna promote democracy, we want to expand voting . The voice of people, uh, to say what kind of government they want to have. . Uh, and it seems to be, as I mentioned earlier, the very small percentage of voter fraud that has existed, uh, to, to, to pass the Save Act is in effect, to create a solution where there is no problem. . Uh, and when you do that, you are actually creating a problem for democracy. , . . Because you're limiting people's participation

Eric (12:13):

Absolutely.

George (12:13):

At a time when many people are discouraged about participating. Anyway, uh, so the Save Act is, uh, alive in Congress today and is worth, uh, people's attention and contacting your legislators, uh, congresspersons and Senators. Uh, and so, uh, please be aware of that. Yeah. Uh, sponsored, I think by one of our Texas representatives, ? Yes. Uh, chip Roy. So, uh, in any case, okay, so, so voting has been something that you've been passionate about. Uh, immigration is another thing. Uh, tell us more about your engagement with immigration.

Eric (12:52):

Well, I've always been, you know, an advocate for, for, uh, immigrants, immigrants rights. I think there's been an incredible, you know, just cyclically, you know, issue. When the bushes were in office, it was, you know, Latinos are the backbone of society, and we need immigration to, to do X, y, Z. After nine 11, I was sitting in my office and, uh, uh, which was near, you know, downtown Dallas, and we started hearing after it happened in, in the weeks that that followed a number of judges, you know, uh, asking, Hey, do we have an obligation to, to report these people? We find out they're not here legally. Do we have to do this? Do we have, so we started kind of getting together with, with, uh, other attorneys and groups to, uh, to let them know that that was not a requirement, and it's probably something they shouldn't be doing.

Eric (13:41):

But it was a very scary time because we had had this history of, okay, immigrants are wonderful, and Latinos are the backbone, and we're, you know, we're, we're charging forward. It was just a, an incredible retraction from that, which was very scary. Yes. And unfortunately, I think what came from that was an opportunity for some, and within the Republican party to start creating this boogeyman. We've got this boogeyman, uh, to the South . That, uh, that is invading our borders. And, uh, and that has become, you know, kind of a rallying cry, you know, from that point forward to really treat immigrants as the other . And when you do that, we know historically that can be incredibly problematic for that group. And that's exactly what we're seeing. . And, uh, today we're seeing it and, and what we're hearing from the federal level, what we're hearing down in Austin, uh, it's very scary. Uh, you've got people who've been here and contributing for years and years, just raising families, you know, creating businesses, doing all the things that you know, that, that good Americans should be doing. . And now they're talking about them as being criminals and problematic and in need of, of getting rid of them from our country.

George (14:51):

Well, and there's one thing to say that when someone is a criminal, because they have, uh, been, uh, you know, convicted of some sort of , uh, illegal activity in the country of origin, . Or in our own country, uh, that's one thing. But when, when they're called criminals simply because they've crossed the border . Without, uh, documentation . To do so, uh, now you're extending the definition of criminality in a very broad way. Um, but let's play devil's advocate and I'd, I'd love to hear you, your comments about this. Sure. Obviously, we have had a massive influx of people trying to get into the country right across the southern border, and there are all sorts of reasons for that. And it's been very difficult for the US to manage that movement of people that the migration from, uh, south and Central America has been massive, uh, for reasons of climate change and, and drug cartels and, uh, you know, lack of jobs and economic opportunity and all of that, but some, sometimes persecution and sometimes, uh, violence and danger as well in, in these places. So, uh, when people make these claims about invasion and this sort of thing, you know, how do you speak to them and say, wait, wait a minute. Okay. Yes, they're coming. And yes, they're desperate to get to this country and know everyone hasn't gone through all the right procedures. What would you, how would you differentiate the arguments and how would you, how would you speak to people about what's happening in the lives of people at the border?

Eric (16:39):

What I think most people don't realize is that we've had this for years and years. It's been a situation where we've had, you know, mass movement and migration from through Mexico, which of course, you, you, you're talking about the Central Americans and South Americans kind of coming through different, of course, uh, countries have different, uh, movements based on what's going on in that particular country. But we've had, you know, pretty much the same numbers <laugh> throughout since, since before Obama, or probably since Obama, as, as many know, he was, he probably deported more individuals than, yes. Than than other presidents. So it's been something that's been relatively consistent in terms of that movement. It hasn't been something that has been overwhelming, and, okay, now we're being invaded. I know that's difficult to people, for people to kind of fathom. And I get that, uh, realistically, when we have a system that allows people to comment and make asylum claims, which is our federal law, yes, you reach American soil, you, you have a fear of persecution in your home country.

Eric (17:36):

You have the legal ability to make an asylum claim, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Uh, it's a situation where, where people are entitled to that. According to federal law, what we've done recently was basically shut down the border. We're not gonna allow people to even make that asylum claim because they're not gonna step on us soil and do those things. And is it is for those people that I am, uh, truly most concerned because I've seen it, I've been down there, I've, I've seen people fleeing persecution in their home countries, literally life or death, and us returning them back to death. . And, and I mean that with all sincerity. Yes. Those are very realistic things that happen. And I don't think people really, you know, understand that, that, uh, that is what's going on in some of these countries. I totally agree with you that, that as the United States, we have the ability to keep those people, uh, out of our country, that would want to do harm, that have committed crimes in their home countries .

Eric (18:34):

That would continue to commit crimes here. I don't think anyone is, is arguing that I, I even, you know, the furthest to the left, that progressive that you could kind of contemplate. No, I, I don't know those people either. . . They, they don't really exist, but you've got to, again, create a boogeyman. It kind of puts them all into one little, you know, uh . Uh, funneling of, of individuals and say, okay, all these people are this. My biggest concern is that when we shut down the border, and Biden, you know, Biden did it too, with, with, uh, title 42, he closed down the border based on, I think, some political pressure to do that. We don't have to be that way as a, as a country, we don't, when you say a lack of resources, <laugh>, that is all on Congress to be able to accommodate that.

Eric (19:16):

We overwhelm, and I, I really believe this, we overwhelm intentionally to maintain a certain amount of migration that kind of comes in and do it in such a way that, uh, uh, that we have everything maintaining a status quo. . We allow for, you know, uh, laborers to come over that we can, you know, depress the levels of, and amounts that we pay them in order to make, you know, profits here in the United States. Yeah. That's historically what we've done. . We don't allow Mexico, which is our, you know, biggest, you know, relationship in terms of migration or moving historically that we've ever had. We don't allow them any additional ability to allow for, uh, people to come over legally than any other country. Yes. And that's intentional in a lot of ways in our immigration system. But even talking to that, or speaking to that, the intent of, of, of Congress and doing what it's doing, uh, the levels haven't changed all that much.

Eric (20:11):

. It is just the focus on the optics of, oh my gosh, look at these caravans, look at these people. There is no doubt that there are some bad people kind of coming in trying to enter without inspection. That's a very real possibility. . Uh, so we do need to maintain and be careful about who's coming in and doing what we're doing. I think we could easily take care of that if we wanted to. Yes. If we would address those issues, we overwhelm those, those counties, we overwhelm those, those border cities Yes. By not allowing enough monies to flow, to take care of them. And, and the unfortunate thing about that is we don't have to do that. . Our Congress has been, <laugh> has done nothing to truly address it. Well,

George (20:53):

Let's talk about Congress, because immigration is federal, . Responsibility. . And now we know that in Texas, because our governor has been unhappy with federal enforcement of immigration law, and, uh, discipline at the border, uh, Texas has gotten involved in that process as well, and is now seeking reimbursement from the federal government for its, uh, its, uh, policing of the border. But Congress is supposed to regulate immigration. . Everybody knows that we need an immigration reform law passed. Uh, no one seems to be in agreement about what it should look like. . But it is also true that regardless of Democrat or Republican congresses there has, there, there's really been no motivation for them to achieve it. Because if it, whatever law is passed, it's gonna have to be a compromise. And that compromise is going to be bad politically for anyone who votes for it. . Somehow, immigration has always been, unfortunately something that, uh, is a negative rather than a positive for politicians. Why do you think that is, Eric?

Eric (22:17):

I think there's, there's on both sides, both Democrat and Republican. I think a prime example is daca, deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals. Incredibly popular young people who are brought into this country as, as children, as toddlers, um, through no fault of their own kind of being brought over here. They're not US citizens. 'cause they, of course, weren't born here and DACA created by Obama to allow these people to at least, uh, be able to stay through prosecutorial discretion, basically no permanent avenue to stay, but we're gonna, we're not gonna deport you, and we're gonna give you the ability to work here. . So these DACA recipients, I cannot tell you how, how incredible, if you look at them in terms of the percentages of, of doctors, lawyers, teachers Yeah. Just across the board, uh, doing incredible things to the tune of, you know, hundreds of thousands who've, who've partaken of the, of the DACA process, very popular, um, opportunities for Democrats to kinda get that piece of legislation passed. The problem with it, I think, uh, politically was the, the speed at which they would give them an opportunity to become citizens. Yes. The, the belief being on the Republican side, that, hey, we're gonna get a lot of primarily Latinos, primarily Hispanics who are DACA recipients, the ability to become, uh, you know, US citizens within a certain period of time. And then you're looking at a number of voters who might vote Democrat. So,

George (23:48):

And is that actually true, do you think? I mean, it may be so, but I mean, uh, it, it seems that in recent elections, Latinos have not automatically voted Democrat.

Eric (23:59):

Yeah. I think the bigger question, of course, with respect to who's doing what, voting Democrat, voting Republican among Latinos is the age group. Okay. So young people, young people have a tendency to vote, uh, for Democrats. Just the initial attraction to what, you know, Democrats kind of bring to the table, uh, Republican, uh, Latinos certainly exist. Yes. And especially the further south you go in Texas . You know, that's a very, that's a very realistic thing. You're talking about people who've been here, been there in those areas for perhaps hundreds of years. Yes. And it's just a, the conservative nature of the way in which they see things Yes. Uh, maybe fiscally and otherwise that would lend them to become Republicans. I think it's the young people equation. Okay. And the DACA recipients, by way of the law itself, these are young people. Yes. You couldn't have been a certain age when you came over.

Eric (24:47):

You couldn't be a certain age when you applied. You had to be, uh, at a younger age. So DACA recipients are gonna be younger. Realistically, if you look at it, they probably will be voting Democrat in a higher percentage, not necessarily all of them, but at a higher percentage. And that has been the fear by Republicans to not allow it to pass, even though at certain times it had a 90%, you know, popularity rate. . In terms of what's there. So they're the ones that are kind of the, if you want to examine how these things work and flow politically . Daca, DACA recipients are the ones that you really look at and say, if they can't get something done, how in the world are we gonna get the rest of this? Exactly. So there's both, there's two sides to it. But, but we are hopeful that at present, the way in which the current administration is talking, and this may segue into our, into talk about the march, uh, is that, that we might have a possibility. And, and it's always been my hope that Republicans would at least embrace the possibility that they've got to come back to the Latino vote at some point. Yes. We're not going anywhere in terms of percentages. , . Uh, they can only keep us at bay for a certain period of time, and honestly, that's what they've been doing for a number of years. Yes. So at some point you would imagine they'd want to embrace Latinos appeal. Yes, exactly.

George (25:59):

E exactly.

Eric (26:00):

So that's a, that's a possibility. And I'm hopeful that it, at the very least, that may be something that might actually be done by Congress, you know, soon. . When they, when they stop talking about, well, we're gonna get rid of all the criminal immigrants, or we're gonna get rid of, well, who's next? Who's next, who's next? Let's at least look at the possibility of making an exception for those people who've been here for a number of years Yes. Who've been contributing and doing the things. And for DACA recipients who . Who have to be perfect just about in order to be able to partake. Well, Eric,

George (26:29):

It's been curious to me, um, because Republicans have, uh, been advocating for traditional values. . Um, the vast majority of Latinos in this country are, uh, uh, Catholic in their religious orientation. And as such, generally speaking, uh, the values of the, the Catholic church and the Latino culture sync up fairly well with conservative, evangelical Republican, uh, values also. . Which makes it curious to me as to why there's not a, a greater eagerness to, uh, embrace the Latino community. . Uh, from the Republican side, uh, I, I can see why, uh, Democrats have typically, uh, wanted to embrace cultural differences and ethnic differences as a sign of how America is a multicultural, multiethnic kind of of country. But from a standpoint of values and religious culture and all of that, can you explain what's going on there?

Eric (27:42):

Yeah, I think that's the, that's the, uh, the question. And, and I've been, you know, I've been looking at this for a very long time. It's affected me personally. I grew up, of course, here in Dallas, and I've seen the cycles and how things work. And when we talk about the bushes, you know, that that's where that embrace was coming from. . It was a true embrace by the, the push. And this is where I thought, okay, well, this is where they're gonna reach out, and this is where we're gonna start making things happen. And then I kid you not, nine 11 was an opportunity, I think, for, for the creation of the other Yes. And whoever that's gonna be, whoever we're gonna make the bad person or the fearful thing . When we think about people coming over without inspection in the southern border, I know many people associate that, well, they're not just coming from Mexico, they're coming from, you know, other parts of the world who may want to do harm.

Eric (28:26):

. You put that in someone's mind, that's a very difficult thing to get out of their heads. Yes. Even though realistically, that's not how they're coming over. That's not how they're doing it. . But that is the fear that has kind of prompted. So I think, unfortunately, there were some within the Republican party, maybe not the politicians themselves, but strategists who said, well, in order to preserve, you know, Texas is kind of leaning a little bit, you know, demo, if we lose Texas, we'll lose the presidency. . So there had to be something that created that, that, uh, that that blow back. We're gonna keep it for a number of years. We gotta keep people, we can't yet, we can't let young Latinos vote. . If we do that, this could be a real problem, especially there in Texas . So how do we fix that? Well, we're gonna have to suppress them for a period of time. Problem is, that's continued, it's continued through administrations. There hasn't been enough push by the, the, even the Democratic party to, to embrace. I think, uh, you know, traditional, as you had mentioned, traditional Hispanic values, which, you know, are in conformity a lot with, you'd be very surprised, people would be very surprised, uh, by the way in which, you know, Latinos vote, uh, the way they look at things, what is important to them. .

George (29:36):

Uh, typically anti-abortion, for instance. . 'cause the church's position is, is in

Eric (29:41):

That absolute, my mother could, my my mother had real issue with voting Democrat because of that very, that very issue. And then all of her other leaning and, and . And many of us in the same way. But yeah. Being raised Roman Catholic, that was, that was a real

George (29:54):

Issue. Well, you, you mentioned, uh, being raised Roman Catholic, your mother, uh, tell us about your own faith experience and how has it fed into your passion? I mean, you are a lawyer, you could, you could be doing corporate law, you could be doing all sorts of other kinds of things. Why the work that you're doing, and how does it connect with your own faith? Yeah.

Eric (30:14):

I think more than anything else, it, it is for my mother and, and, and, and certainly my upbringing and, and the way in which I feel, uh, I, I've, I've tried to dissect this on, on a, on a few occasion and, and try to see what's first or what lies where, if I'm being really honest with you, I think there's a, there's a, uh, a real problem that I have innately with injustice. Yes. There's a real problem with, with people treating other people just unfairly because of, of who they are. Yes. You know, just off the bat. And, and I believe that comes from a position of, of my faith and my upbringing. . But honestly, there's, there's a component in there that I know that is, is kind of selfish and self-interest. I don't want my children growing up. I don't want my grandchildren growing up in, in a society where they are treated differently because of who they are and what they represent.

Eric (31:05):

So, but I do know that my mother was, was, uh, an incredibly faithful Catholic. . Uh, she sent us to, to Catholic school. I went to school down the street at <laugh>, at St. Thomas. . And, uh, and, and that is always, all of those things stick with me when I'm making decisions about how I'm going to do things, how I'm gonna treat people, whether or not I'm gonna take a case pro bono, whether or not I'm, I'm gonna reach out to someone and, and do something. So it's always been kind of a, when I dissect it, I'm, I'm not sure what came first, but I, I'm, if I think about it, it is probably based on faith. And it is based on, you know, in, in my personal view, Jesus' teachings, I mean, the invitation to all the, the, the, uh, non-judgment of, of, of people for who they are. That's always been a, I think, a cornerstone. You know, certainly in the back of my mind, when I make decisions and do things, there've been a lot of laws that are just totally, in my opinion, immoral. . And, and we know this throughout his history, and we try to justify that in certain ways . Throughout history. . And I just fear that, that, you know, is, is kind of coming back to the fore. . And, uh, and, and we've just got to, uh, be strong and fight against those things. 'cause

George (32:18):

So, so Dr. King, uh, talked in his letter from the Birmingham Jail about immoral laws. . Uh, and how, you know, laws can be written and they, if they do not sync up with the moral law, then they should not be obeyed. . Uh, in fact, you have to, you have to have a, a fidelity to the higher law of, uh, of moral law. Um, and, and so I, I know that often Dr. King is, uh, you know, one of the great heroes of not, not just the African American community, but also, you know, people who are struggling for human rights generally. Certainly who are some of your Latino or Hispanic heroes. Yeah. Uh, king is inspiring to everyone. But I'm curious if, if you would say, okay, you, you all ought to know this person or that Well,

Eric (33:12):

<laugh> in our history growing up and, and being a little bit more, uh, rebellious, being an attorney is difficult because when I, I I have certain feelings towards things, then being an attorney and advising and, and being in that role, I've got to be careful about how I talk about things. But certainly as a youth going, I went to college, I went to the University of Texas, Austin, I had the opportunity to, uh, delve into those libraries, look at, at Latino contributions. Yes. Throughout history and, and all of the things that kind of, you know, that we, that I was never exposed to. I'm like, my goodness, we did a lot to, you know, contribute. So for me, I was a little bit rebellious. Emiliano Shasta, who was, uh, you know, people may not see as he was, you know, you know, part of the, uh, you know, the Mexican revolution and, and, uh, uh, he was just very strong.

Eric (33:59):

And, and he's the one who kind of gave us the, you know, it's better to, to, uh, live on your feet than, than die on your knees. Uhhuh, uh, that has kind of always been my, you know, kind of a quiet rallying cry for, for supporting the, the, the, uh, small guy. Okay. Representing the David, uh, against the Goliath. Okay. Uh, in addition to that, and someone that, that is probably, you know, just truly a reflection of the Latino community and experience Cesar Chavez. . You know, somebody who, who quietly, humbly fought back Yes. And did it in such a way, uh, that was very similar to Dr. King, to Gandhi in terms of . We're not gonna, we're not gonna create problems. We're not gonna hurt people, but we're gonna fight quietly back . With the resources that we have, and we need to do it as, as a collection. And I think he embodied that. Yes. And he was kind of, for us, uh, probably the person that we kind of, that's our Dr. King in the Latino

George (34:54):

Community. Yes. I can see that. Certainly. Well, uh, I, I resonate a lot, Eric, with what you're saying about, um, you know, this notion of, um, how injustice is motivating in, in your work. It, it is for me as well. . And, uh, and, and I, I think one of my friends always says about me, why do you always take the position of supporting the underdog? You know, that that's just who you are. And, and I, I, you know, I think part of, for me at least, is, uh, that it, there's kind of a conscious self-awareness of my privilege, . Of the fact that I, I, you know, what, whatever happens, uh, politically, I'm gonna be okay. . You know, that's not true for everyone. Policies, elections have consequences that hurt some people more than others. And so, uh, being engaged somehow in making sure that your neighbor has opportunity, the same privileges and freedoms, uh, is really important to me. And I know it is to you. A lot of people ask me, uh, and my partners at Faith Commons, and I'm sure they ask you, what can we do to be more engaged? And I know a march isn't everything, but it's coming up on March the 30th, uh, down, uh, beginning at, uh, our Lady of Guadalupe, uh, Catholic Church, the cathedral downtown. Uh, tell us about the super mega march and how people could turn out for that and what, what it's about.

Eric (36:27):

. Uh, if you go, if people would go to, I believe it's Mega Marcha, M-A-R-C-H-A 2025. There's a, there's a website that's recently been, uh, put up that will provide you information about the route and Uhhuh and all the things that we're doing. It's basically a, a, uh, an outreach to folks, uh, specifically hopefully to congress, to, to support immigration reform. Yes. I think, I think that is one that is one area, at least in my opinion, where I think there might be some movement with this administration. Okay. That possibility of providing DACA recipients with some long-term, uh, relief, becoming, hopefully ultimately citizens in some way. And then again, people who've been here, people who've been here for years and years, raising families, building businesses, uh, doing, 'cause I, the way the rhetoric currently is, it looks like people just want to, this administration wants to get rid of all immigrants .

Eric (37:21):

That, uh, that may not have come over the right way in, in their words. So it's a situation where we want to assure the possibility that those people who can be saved, uh, we can make that happen. And that's the purpose of the march. We're gonna go out there and do it in such a way. I, there's a part of me, just like I told you, the, the <inaudible> and the, and the Cesar Chavez. There, there have been a number of marches and protest about what's going on. Yeah. Part of me is totally in support of that. Yeah. What is happening with respect to our government and just the overreach and, and the unfortunate, you know, um, maybe sometimes overt, maybe subtle racism involved in some of the things that are, that are going by and doing . Uh, real problematic for me. And I want people, I want young people especially to recognize that and understand in our country, you have the ability to peacefully protest against those things.

Eric (38:14):

Yes. Yes. This march may be a little bit different in terms of what it is we're trying to do, which is trying to move congress, move Congress people to, to, to support immigration reform. So, so we're requesting, you know, not necessarily demanding of anybody that, that we wear, you know, white, that we raise American flags . That, uh, that we, we show that, uh, that we're really trying to achieve an objective, which is to help as many people as we can, uh, that may, may, that we may be able to do with respect to this current administration. Yes. Um, so, so that is what we're hopeful about with respect to this march, but certainly understanding, 'cause we, we've had a number of young people who are like, well, why can't we bring our Mexican flag? And why can't we believe, uh, bring our, our Salvadorian flag? You certainly can if that's, if that is what moves you. But the purpose of this march is to move or shift the way in which, you know, Congress needs to be nudged in allowing for something like this to happen. Because, you know, if we can call anything from what's going on currently in our country, that would be a positive that, that, that might be achievable. Great. Yeah.

George (39:22):

Well, uh, politics is the art of the, the possible, isn't it? That's right. And so, uh, if we're not engaged in one way or another, uh, creating that pressure, offering those voices, it's gonna be difficult to move the needle on that. Eric, you move the needle on a lot of things sometimes. I know it must be discouraging to you to be in the places that you're working, but you encourage a lot of us, and we're grateful for your partnership and for your advocacy. Thank you for all that you do. I appreciate that. And thanks for being with us on Good God.

Eric (39:54):

Certainly. Thank you for having me, George. Absolutely. Yes sir. Bet.