Building Peace Through Dialogue: A Conversation with Hana Bendcowsky

What does peacebuilding look like in a place marked by fear and trauma?

George Mason speaks with Hana Bendcowsky, Program Director at the Rossing Center for Education and Dialogue in Jerusalem. Hana describes the Rossing Center’s work fostering understanding and shared society among Jews, Christians, and Muslims in Israel through mindful listening, trauma awareness, and relationship building. Reflecting on the aftermath of October 7, 2023, she shares how the war has intensified polarization while making dialogue more essential than ever.

Their conversation closes with reflections on religious identity, nationalism, and compassion, as Hana and George recognize the parallels between Jewish and Christian struggles to uphold faith-based values amid political and social division.

Hana Bendcowsky holds an M.A. in Comparative Religion from the Hebrew University and has nearly three decades of experience in interfaith work in Israel and abroad. She teaches in seminaries, academic programs, and government settings, and leads educational tours in Jerusalem focused on the Christian Quarter and Jewish-Christian relations in the Israeli context.

Watch the video, here.

George (00:12):

<silence> Welcome to Good God, conversations that matter about faith and public Life. I'm your host, George Mason, and I'm delighted to introduce to you a friend from Jerusalem in Israel. This is Hana Bendcowsky and she is, uh, the program director, director for the Rossing Center for Education and Dialogue in Jerusalem. Hanha welcome to Dallas. Welcome to Good God. Welcome to Faith Commons. We're so glad to have you here.

Hana (00:41):

Thank you very much for having me here. It's really a great, great pleasure, and I'm really excited about this visit to Dallas.

George (00:47):

Well, uh, before we get into what's happening in your visit to Dallas, I think people would be interested to know about the Rossing Center and what you do in Jerusalem, because your specific work especially is really in Jewish and Christian relations.

Hana (01:02):

Exactly. So the Rossing Center was established 20 years ago by late Daniel Rossing. . So now it's named after him. It started as a Jewish Christian organization. The idea was that Daniel thought that there's a need for organization that would focus on Jewish Christian relations in the context of what's happening in the Holy Land. Yes, there are lots of interfaith organization, Jewish Christian organization around the world, but they're the Jews of the minority and Christian the majority. Yes. In Israel, it's the first time in the history. Yes. And the only place in the world where we are the majority and Christian, the minority. . And it works differently. Yes. And the dialogue should be different. And the Christians are different because we're talking about Palestinian Christians, and we have a long history of being minority. We know how to be a minority <laugh>, and we did that quite well throughout 2000 years.

Hana (01:49):

And we still do that around the world. But to be a majority, it's come with responsibilities. Yes. And you have to learn how to work with a minority. So there's a need to something that would specialize and first of all, analyze the unique challenges of Jewish Christian relations in Israel and the Holy land, and also to, to give a space for that. And that was the idea of the organization with when it was established. Um, Daniel passed away five years later, and then we expanded the organization. So today we're not focusing only on Jewish Christian dialogue, but we are focusing on promotive inclusive society, shared society for Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Israelis, and Palestinians in, uh, Israel. Uh, we're trying to build peace. Yes. Just peace for all communities.

George (02:35):

And, and this is something I think people on the outside don't fully always understand or appreciate about Israel is what you've just described is actually what the intent of Israel was at the very beginning. But it's been difficult to carry that through, and you're trying to make sure that it is an inclusive society where everyone does have a sense of shared participation and equal rights and those sorts of things. Right.

Hana (03:01):

I think there's now a debate of what was the original intention of the state of Israel today. Not everyone would agree that that was the idea, but, uh, definitely things became more polarized. The society became more polarized. Uh, opinions of people are more extreme and, uh, the sentiment of the both society toward each other, um, is more complicated than negative. Yes. And, and therefore we try to make this place a better place for everyone to live a safe place for everyone to live. Yes. And allow the different communities to be together to express themself, recognize each other. Right. And that's part of the work that we are trying to do.

George (03:39):

So when we talk about Jewish and Christian relations and dialogue, um, there, the people who are gonna be watching this mostly have some sense of how that happens here, partly because, uh, my partner, rabbi Nancy Caston and I, uh, model that through Faith Commons, and we've been involved in different ways, uh, in Dallas, uh, with different people in Jewish and Christian dialogue, but it's, it's actually the opposite, uh, because of the Christian majority here in Jewish minority. But before we, you know, talk only about, uh, that difference I think would be interesting therefore for people to hear, what are the key challenges that you feel, uh, in Jewish Christian dialogue because of the very small Palestinian Christian community?

Hana (04:27):

So, I would say that the challenges of Jewish Christian dialogue in the holy land is connected to, first of all, the question of who is the minority and who is the majority. Yes. Um, you would think that Jews are the majority because in terms of number, we're 75% of the population, but we still feel a minority in the Middle East, in the minority, in the Christian world. Right. Um, these feelings have even became stronger during the last two years of war. Yes. And we haven't started a process of healing from a small minority that's trying to overprotect itself and, and keep itself close to a process that recognizing that we are the majority, and as a minority, we expect the support of the communities and, and the world. And the Christians, they're part of a very big majority because the Christian, Palestinian Christian are part of the Arab world. . And they're part of the Christian world. . Of course, in terms of number that are minority within a minority. So first of all, the power dynamic is not clear. That's the first thing.

George (05:30):

Unclear power dynamic is a very important thing to mention, I think. Yes.

Hana (05:34):

And, and what is obvious here . Who is the majority and who is the majority Yes. In, in the holy land. . It's not an, an objective . Question. It's a very subjective of self perception. How do you see yourself? Yes. Um, it's a question. It's the, the baggage that we brought with us right. From Europe. Jews came with an experience of 2000 years of being minority of antisemitism, of, uh, anti Judaism, of animosity of Yes, of course there are changes in the churches in many of the Western churches. But that's the memories we carried with us from Europe. And then we counted the holy land and the Christian meet are Palestinian Christian who ask us, what do you want from us? . Why do you keep raising the Holocaust and the persecution you went through? This is not us. Why? Yeah. Why, when do you, you see the symbol of the cross?

Hana (06:25):

You find it insulting when it says the symbol of our faith. So there's tension around the question of victimhood, the question of history, the question of connection between the history of Jews and among Christians and the local Palestinian Christians. Then you have theological issues that are more similar to the challenges that you might have in Jewish Christian dialogue in other places. But you have to add to that the issue that most Israelis are quite ignorant when it comes to Christianity. They know something about Christmas tree and Santa Claus, and that's about it. Um, so the theological challenges of reading the scriptures and the right way, what God meant in the scriptures. Is there one truth or many truths? Yes. Uh, this is a challenge.

George (07:19):

And, and I would say just, you know, as a general rule, the tendency in the Christian community is to say that there is one truth in scripture. Right. Where for a Jew, it's, it, it's a conversation. It's a, it's a, it, it, it's, yes.

Hana (07:35):

I, I I would not agree on that. Okay, go ahead. Religious Jews would say, well, there is a truth. . Um, liberal people, open-minded people, critical thinking would say, well, maybe different way to read a text. Okay. But if you're talking about revelation, I think most of Jews would say, well, there is one truth, and if you go to detail, Jesus are not, Jesus is not in the book of Isaiah. Yes. Okay. Okay. So that's the kind of discussion you would have. Um, and it's a challenge, especially when people have very little knowledge about each other Palestinians, about Judaism and Jews, about Christianity in theology. Uh, so that's another challenge. And then we have the conflict. . We don't have Jewish Christian dialogue. We have Jewish Israeli . Christian Palestinian dialogue. Yes. Right. It's always like that. Yes. So you cannot talk about the text only.

Hana (08:26):

Yes. Because the text is connected in so many way to the conflict. . You cannot just talk about the holidays and how we celebrate the holidays, because there's always a question of, do you recognize the nakba? Do you recognize the Holocaust? Do you recognize the suffering? What do we do in the West Bank? What do we, I mean, these questions are always there. You cannot talk about theology without talking about the conflict. Right. And when you talk about the conflict, it's a different conversation. Yes. So being aware all the time that the dialogue include the national aspect, the geographical aspect, the historical aspect, and the religious aspect. . You don't have, you cannot have Israeli-Palestinian dialogue that does not include religiosity or religion. Yes. Not necessarily God, but religion and society. And you cannot have religious dialogue or interfaith dialogue without talking about the national aspect. And then we have the challenge of language. . Very technical thing that you would not have here. . We don't speak the same language. Right. Palestinians mother tongue is Arabic. . Our mother tongue is Hebrew, and if you try to speak each other's language, it would always be a second language. . And if you try English, it's the third language . So it's also difficult to express yourself in a very precise way when you don't speak Yes. Your mother tongue.

George (09:47):

So with all the different aspects of the context that you've, you've talked about, uh, all the challenges of, of, of, of having these dialogues, uh, this is not a recipe for peace, <laugh>. This is a, a, a tremendous challenge to it. So how do you get to a place where you find the common ground that helps you to begin to make progress?

Hana (10:19):

So, first of all, analyzing the problem. . And understanding the problem, problem is very important. Um, but then the methods that we use, uh, in our programs are unique because we try to give place for the trauma and this baggage . That we carry with us, and understand that when we talk about the dialogue, when we talk about relation, when we talk about attitude toward the other, it's not only concerning our opinion about the other or about the political situation, but it's connected to all kind of things, all kind of traumas, all kind of experiences that each and every person had in its own life. So my attitude toward the Christian, Palestinian Christian is connected to so many things that happened to me. Maybe even something that happened to me in my childhood, my relationship with my neighbor, or with my parents, or experience I had in a trip somewhere around the world that has an impact on the way I see the other.

Hana (11:24):

First of all, recognizing that and trying to make this connection. We work on mindful listening, be able to listen to the other without judging it, without thinking all the time, oh, what he says is correct or incorrect, uh, without trying to justify my side. Oh yeah, of course he said that because . We did that. Or try to be very, very open and just listen and recognize his challenges and understanding that through that you create relationship in a different level that allows you to hear him and listen to him not to agree, not to come to a conclusion, how to solve the conflict, whatever conflict is, but just be able to listen and create kind of relationship and openness to where the other allows you to be closer to him. . And, uh, if you recognize the challenges, if you recognize how the, your, the way you read the reality is rooted in inner things that come from you and from your personal experiences. And if you learn how to be able to listen to the other and not be busy all the time with judging him or justify yourself, it creates openness to, to be together. It involve, it allows social closeness to have more relationship, not just to say, okay, we, we play bad gamma together, or we eat humus together, but we actually ready to leave one next to the other. Yes.

George (13:01):

Yes. But to do that requires a level of curiosity about the other, instead of assuming you already know what the other person thinks and feels. And, uh, and, and so to do that requires time and patience and a desire to know one another. Right.

Hana (13:19):

So one of the goals in our organization, one of the aims that we put to, uh, for the Rossing Center is to create the wheel and the capacity . To build shared society because it's true, there's not enough will. There's, there's curiosity, uh, but there's not enough will to make the exo step . Uh, and I think that's part of our work. Yes. I think, uh, the, the fact that we are very passionate about what we do, the fact that all the staff members and the people who work in the organization really believe in what we do. And we do believe that this is the way to have a better reality here in the holy Land. . Um, I think also create curiosity and increase the wheel of people to, to get involved. But of course, it's a long process. It's a long process, and we walk two steps ahead, and then we go back few steps because the political climate around us is changed all the time. Well,

George (14:19):

We need to talk about that too. Okay. So this has been a work you've been up to for a while, and there was a kind of stasis, uh, in the Middle East for a period of time, if you can ever call it that. Right. <laugh>. But October 7th, obviously two years ago, was world changing. Uh, how did it change the work you do in Jewish Christian dialogue?

Hana (14:44):

First of all, it took us a few weeks to get together. We have a mixed staff. . <affirmative>, Jews, Christian Muslims, Israelis, Palestinians . To get together and to start process what we are going through . And then to adjust the programs. . More focus on uni, national activity. So having more preparation for Palestinian groups separated from the Jewish group, and only then to bring them together. Yes. Um, working again about trauma and allowing a place to discuss the traumas that we all went through, uh, on Octo, uh, 7th of October, but then also the following days, different kind of traumas. Yes. Recognizing the different traumas, because I think, um, you don't have to live on near the, the border with Gaza. You don't have to be in Gaza in order to be traumatized as a Palestinian or as an Israeli, or as a Jew. I think a lot, the whole society was traumatized. It has waves that affected people all over the world.

George (15:54):

And I was in Jerusalem that day on the 7th of October. Yes. So, I, I know something of what you're talking about. I mean, it was a, an an enormous change that you could feel everywhere.

Hana (16:04):

And I also think that communities of di communities or organizations that were involved in Jewish Christian dialogue for many years were also traumatized because something in their relationship got broken. Yes. Miles away from, from Gaza. So the impact of this trauma need to be discussed. Yes. And we give it a lot of space to talk about it. And it's very hard because, uh, a lot of people afraid to talk. Many, many Palestinian in, I'm talking about citizen of Israel, afraid to talk, uh, afraid. They're afraid to be open. And we have to find ways to feel that they would feel safe and secure enough within the groups that we're working with . In order to, to express this trauma. Right. And it's connected, obviously, to other traumas. I mean, as we, Jews always connected to trauma of other, of, of persecution in Europe. Yeah. Palestinian connected to other traumas that they experienced in 48 or six, seven. So again, to allow this discussion, and it's hard and it's very heated, and less people want to participate in dialogue now, and you have, again, to encourage and to create the will to be involved in dialogue again. . Uh, so it's, so

George (17:26):

Have you sensed in your own spirit a change in your self understanding as a Jew during this period of time? What is it like to be a Jew now, uh, after October 7th, and in the con in this context?

Hana (17:40):

It's interesting because with all the interview that I gave since the 7th of October, no one asked me this question. . I think I went through a long journey since I started to be involved in dialogue. And until today, um, and, and my political opinion were changed, but, um, I, this feeling of responsibility as a Jew . Uh, responsibility for others, responsibility for the state of Israel, responsibility for the society, my society, going through a huge crisis. Yes. Again, very polarized, very, uh, strong religious nationalism. Um, a lot of hatred and animosity, a lost, I felt that I lost, uh, a lot of people. Not, not that they were hurt during the war, but their political opinion, their way of looking at the Palestinians, the dehumanization of the Palestinian, uh, made me feel that I cannot continue my relationship with them. Um, so I, I, I search for the meaning of being now a Jew in Israel. . And, uh, also raised many question about the whole Jewish, the relationship of Jews around the world, and what happened to the Jewish community around the world in the diaspora and, and what we cause them. I mean, they were all, there are miles away from what's happening in Israel and, and what's the impact of what we do in Israel on their lives in other places. Um, so it raised a lot of questions.

George (19:26):

Well, and I, I think it's also important to realize that we are always in our faith traditions. We're searching for that, that identity among even our co-religionists. Right. So you, what does it mean for you to be a Jew among Jews with whom you disagree? What does it mean for me to be a Christian among Christians with whom I disagree? Palestinian Christians struggle with this as well, and there is an enormous sense of, I know, uh, betrayal that many Palestinian Christians feel from American Christians, uh, who, um, are, you know, supposed to be their co-religionists, but they, uh, feel abandoned by them in their theology and in the way they view what's happening in Israel. So, uh, I think it's, it's best for us often not to just say Jews, this and Christians that. Right. Because we have, uh, nuances. We have, we, we have to be sensitive to, uh, some of the dynamics of, of division and pain, even within our own faith traditions, right?

Hana (20:31):

Yes, absolutely. And, uh, I think what I, I think what I could do right after, and quite sometime after the war started, um, is to reconnect with Christian friends. . Uh, we usually, not some, with some, we discussed the political situation with others, but there was some closeness that was created . Uh, and I felt very connected to them. I could go, we could just meet and, and hug each other and cry for what's happening, um, or talk about what's happening with Christians. Yes. Um, with the, with the Jewish community. I think the Jewish community, well, as I said, the society in Israel is very polarized. And I think it's, it's challenging for me. It's especially challenging around, um, religious, maybe I should cla the, the religious society in Israel, modern Orthodox. . Very Orthodox, ultra Orthodox. Uh, these are the communities where I grew up with modern orthodox society.

Hana (21:41):

Um, they, in a way, I, I find that they use religion to deny the, the values that I would think are part of the Judaism in a way or not to deny, but push them aside and have different priority. And, um, when it comes to religious, um, ceremonies and prayers, especially around the high holidays, when we talk about repentance and we talk about judgment. Yes. And we talk, um, it's harder to go to a regular religious, orthodox synagogue Yes. And repeat the confession and talk about forgiveness when the reality in Israeli is very different. . And people are not presenting compassion toward others that do not agree with them on their political situation or to other people. Um,

George (22:38):

Now if you could just, if you could just put a mirror image up of what you just described. This is what Christians like me are going through in our country right now with a very similar sense of, um, the people who seem to be in charge of, of the country are using Christian religion, uh, for purposes of power and for national identity. And, uh, there feels like a loss of the fundamental values of compassion and the way we treat one another and welcome the stranger and care for, uh, those who are hurting and marginalized. And this creates that very same sense of alienation within your own religious group, right? So I think, um, you know, much of what we are learning, it, it seems like is, is that we are a mirror image of one another in, in some sense here. Yeah.

Hana (23:36):

And I think that's the purpose of, of our visit here good in, in the US in Dallas, is to, to look at each other. Yes. And to learn from that. Because when you are start stuck in your own bubble and with your own challenges, you think this is, that's it. That's right. But when you hear that similar people, uh, deal with similar challenges, right. It helps us to think about it Yes. Together. Yes. How to work toward better reality, how to follow our values in similar, similar but very different context. Yes. And I think this is very important. Learning this mutual learning is a very important process that we sometimes tend to forget how important it's because we kind of closed with ourself and, and, uh, and thinking of, or paralyzed by, by the reality that we are going through and by this feeling of alienation.

George (24:34):

Well, Hana, thank you for coming. I'm reminded of, uh, Dr. Martin Luther King's image of a world house that we all have to learn how to live in this house together. And we seem to be better at living in our closed rooms, uh, than finding our way to those open doors and finding our, our place together and to dwell. And thank you for the hard work that you're doing. It's hard work, but good work. And I pray that, um, it will bear fruit and we will find one another. And, uh, the peace that comes at the end.

Hana (25:11):

And the same for your work that you're doing here.

George (25:15):

Thank you so much. That's

Hana (25:16):

That.

George (25:16):

We do, we look forward to your visit and for all the things that will take place. And, uh, there will be other videos, uh, of the, these times that, uh, people can follow. Uh, but we're, we're very grateful for you to come and with your partner too. Uh, John, uh, uh, Manayer, and he, uh, we'll have a conversation with him, and that will be also on a good God. But for now, and until then, keep the faith.