Faithful Dissent: Robin Lederer on the Fight for Fair Elections in Texas
Robin Lederer's path into voting rights work started with a letter. When her husband received notice from county elections claiming he'd moved, and he hadn't, Robin realized how little she understood about how voter rolls are actually managed, despite years of voting herself. That discovery led her to co-found the National Coalition for Voting Rights with Dr. Andrea Barrero, a gerrymandering researcher at Southern Methodist University, focused on the overlooked mechanics of "voter list maintenance."
In this conversation, Robin walks George Mason through how voters end up in "suspense" status, how to check your registration before the October 5th deadline, and why Texas has ranked at or near the bottom of the Cost of Voting Index for decades. They discuss the data on voter fraud, which Robin's research puts at just 150 cases out of 127 million ballots over 20 years, the mid-decade congressional redistricting that cut Dallas-Tarrant County representation from six seats to three, and what voters should know heading into early voting on October 19th.
Robin Lederer is a Dallas-based executive, consultant, and civic advocate. She co-founded the National Coalition for Voter Rights in September 2023 and currently serves as CEO of UniBeacon Group LLC.
Watch the video, here.
George (13:00):
Welcome to Good God, conversations that matter about faith and public life. I'm your host, George Mason, and we have another podcast today called Faithful Dissent, uh, with someone who has been actively at work in the election sphere, uh, and it's Robin Lederer. And Robin, I'm so grateful that you've come to have this conversation. It's been fun to work with you. Fun is maybe not the right word because we've been in a time of challenging crisis about these things, but I've so appreciated your faithfulness, ongoing, drilling down into what's happening with voting and elections and, and the law. And so thank you for what you've been doing. But tell us something about yourself and how you came to all of this.
Robin (13:50):
George, I'm so glad you asked me to be here. Thank you. . Um, this is what happened. My husband got a letter in the mail - uh-huh.. From county elections. . And it said that they had information that he had moved. . We hadn't moved. . So I obviously was curious. I had no idea. He had 30 days to fill out a form and send it back. At this point in my voting rights work, I was a volunteer deputy re - deputy registrar. I went to Temple Emmanuel with hundreds of other folks to get my VDR training for different counties that Richard Marcus led. Yes. This is a few years ago. And, um, I was dutifully showing up at events, registering people, getting the form, dropping off at county elections. And then, um, this letter came.
Robin (14:45):
So I realized at that mom ent that I had no idea about election administration, that I had... I'm originally from Pennsylvania, lived in New Jersey, lived in Virginia, um, that I just registered but never thought twice about it. . Of course voted. Um, and I recall a conversation that Don, my husband and I had had over the years about this professor he had in divinity school who asked these three major questions. It was obviously a lecture that stuck in his mind for years, but three major questions. And this is what I turned to, to figure out what I should be doing. And the first question is, how is it that we're here? Second question, what's going on around us? . Third question, what is my role? What is my responsibility? Yes. So I'll leave the first question to theologians. <laugh>
George (15:40):
Okay.
Robin (15:41):
Different discussion. Yes. But the second question, um, after we got the letter, I did a little research and I realized that Texans were struggling to get into the voting system. . Not just Texans, but in states around the country. . To the tune of thousands of registrations that never make it through - Yes. Rejected. To the tune of, uh, multi-millions of Texans mo - registered, moving, deciding not to vote, and then ending up purged and having no idea they no longer existed in the voter database. Right. So those struggles, um, made me aware that there were answers. . There was a way for us to tackle this. . Um, and that became, um, in my mind, and I'm gonna introduce my partner soon, um, data science on election. . That, um, that was just beginning, this is like six or seven years ago - uh-huh.
Robin (16:47):
<affirmative>. That election administration was complex. . And how you, your data sits in the database, um, we call it database management, the buzzword in the industry is voter, voter list maintenance. . What happens to you? So that, that was the second category. . This what's happening in my scene and Texas is so huge. Yeah. That, and the impact's so large - uh-huh.. That, um, it made sense to focus on election administration. Yes. Um, and that third question, why me, or what was the calling? Um, I had spent a career at a large corporation focused on clients, whether they, it was a Washington DC law firm or a major global communications company. . And in that process, I had learned from focusing on marketing and, um, award-winning marketing segmentation that understanding your client was the most important thing. What was motivating? What value did they see in your products and services?
Robin (18:00):
How did they show up in your database? What were they buying? What were the processes, sort of what we call end to end - uh-huh.. That allowed them to, um, drive your revenue and earnings. . So I realized I had the expertise to focus on voters as clients. Okay. That makes sense. It does. It does. And, um, that was the answer to the third question. Um, but I, I needed a partner and I had friend, I had a friend, I have a friend, Dr. Andrea Barrero, who is a associate professor of mathematics at SMU. . And she's a researcher. . She's an expert on Texas gerrymandering. . And, um, was very interested in the subject of election administration and how states and counties manage the voter database as well. So between the two of us, we connected. We created the National Coalition for Voting, Voter Rights, focusing on research, education.
Robin (19:01):
Obviously, this is, this is interesting, but both of us had a sense that, um, and I've read a lot of the little bit of information that sits in election science and academics, that it's not helping voters. So the goal was to understand this system and make it so that advocates, voters, uh, nonprofits could use the information if they wanted to. So that led to Substack. . Using Substack as a way to communicate what we were finding and, uh, attempting, hoping to write in ways that, um, would fit the audience. Right. Whether it was younger audience or, um, well-established voting activists who are very knowledgeable. . Um, and, and in that process, we've done a lot of research, which I know I'd like to talk about. Yes. Um, and - But
George (19:55):
Let me, let me stop you there and just say, we are, um, facing an election very soon, and we're also facing a deadline for people to make sure that they are ready to vote. Yes. Uh, because many people have been put in suspense. Yes. And so before we go too much further, we wanna make sure that we get this information out to people to check their voter status, right? Their registration status. Where do they go to do that? How do they solve it if they find that they are in suspense? And why would they be in suspense anyway?
Robin (20:34):
Huh. It's a loaded question, George. Okay. Yeah. I didn't, I was not aware that we have status in the voter record. Right. So just let me say that anybody listening, watching. Um, when you register and your registration's approved - uh-huh. It, um, you are active. If you move, and it's what happened to my husband, you get a letter, US letter saying that we believe you've moved, please update it and you don't look at it, you don't think about it, you don't re - you don't pay attention. Right. It's not on your mind.
George (21:07):
I mean, how many of you pay attention to what comes in the mailbox today, right?
Robin (21:13):
Exactly. Exactly. Mm-hmm. Um, and if you don't do that and you decide you're not interested in two federal elections in a row - Yes. You're purged. Yes. So you're active, suspended, or you go to find yourself and you're missing. Because in Texas, they don't send you a letter. They don't let you know you're purged. Mm-hmm. So that is one of the major reasons the National Voter Registration Act gave guidelines, guidelines - uh-huh. To states on how to keep the record updated and accurate. Mm-hmm. And part of those guidelines, every state has a way of communicating with someone that's moved. Mm-hmm. So it seems very reasonable. And for us, the message, where should I look? The message is, um, treat your voter data record like your bank account.
George (21:59):
Oh.
Robin (22:00):
If you move, update it. Yes. And that is the power of individual voters. What's sitting in that database that, um, the federal government's very interested in now is your information that you put in, which is great. So on a very practical basis, October 5th is the last day to register. Mm-hmm. So you can go to Ugov. What is it? Utexas.gov. Right. But if you're living in Dallas County, I suggest you go to, uh, Dallas County Votes. Okay. The local election website. Mm-hmm. And they have an easy way for you to do a lookup and then you'll look your name up and you'll see Robin Lederer active, what precinct I'm in, et cetera. Good. If you see that you're in suspense - uh-huh. And, um, you don't have time to update your record, but you moved within the county - uh-huh. Go vote. And when you go to vote, the clerk will tell you you're in suspense.
Robin (22:51):
Just step away, fill out a form. Okay. Uh, like an affidavit to say, this is my correct address in the county. Right. Here's the thing to listen to. If you moved - uh-huh. And again, if you move, you can go online to the state and update your new address. Yes. That the state did a few years ago. Right. And that is wonderful. Do that. No matter what county you move to, do that now before the 5th. Okay. Because that's like re-registering.
George (23:17):
Robin, we know that states are primarily responsible for conducting elections. Um, and it, it seems that, um, you would think that in order to promote democracy and voting is absolutely critical for responsible citizenship and participation in democracy, that states would be hard at work trying to find ways to make sure that everyone possible has the easiest access to being valid into voting. But it feels like the opposite is happening, right? It, it seems like there is a greater sense of how do we purge people who haven't been active? How do we, uh, assume that they shouldn't be able to vote? Or how do we, uh, how do we consolidate, um, polling places, uh, in areas where we, you know, maybe would prefer that there wasn't a strong voter turnout? I mean, there's all this sort of thing going on right now. And, uh, I, I think for a lot of average people who are watching this conversation and listening to it, uh, they are just used to going down to their usual polling place and it's, it's easy.
George (24:48):
It's just, you know, we're gonna vote and there's no big deal. But why is this happening, Robin? What's, what's going on that rather than trying to promote elections and promote participation and promote democracy and give easier access to people, it's going the other way?
Robin (25:10):
Depends on the state. Okay. Um, there's a gentleman, Dr. Michael Pamonti, political scientist that Andre and I have been working with. He started, um, a few years ago, what's called the Cost of Voting Index. Mm-hmm. And what he and his colleagues did, and he now manages it himself, um, is every two years they look at the new laws coming from states. Mm-hmm. And they rank order states on indices that indicate how easy it is to vote. Yes. Or hard. Mm-hmm. Texas has been at the bottom of that list - Yes.
George (25:44):
For 30 years. In other words, hard.
Robin (25:46):
Hard, yes. Yes. Hard. Yes. Uh, this year he told me, uh, Texas is in 47th position.
George (25:53):
Wow.
Robin (25:54):
So just to, to give you an example, um, the ability to register to vote. Texas doesn't have online voting. Right. And I'm sure we're gonna get into that with DPS, et cetera. Um, Texas, um, you have to register to vote 30 days in advance. Mm-hmm. In other states, you can register on election day. Yes. I remember going to vote in El Centro one year and there were two young women in front of me. Mm-hmm. And the one, there was like a check person as we were going through the line and the one woman went and I heard the other woman say to the person sitting there, "Oh, I need to register." <laugh>
George (26:27):
Yeah.
Robin (26:28):
And the woman look agast. No, we don't do that in Texas. So many people moving to Texas have a different experience. Yes. But in Texas, those things are huge. Mm-hmm. That's just getting into the registration system. Mm-hmm. And then we can go into more detail when we talk about TBS. And then, um, how is it, easy is it to vote?
George (26:47):
Mm-hmm.
Robin (26:48):
I mean, these, these are all laws - Yes. That are elected officials in Texas, Senate, house, governor, et cetera, lieutenant governor make happen. Yes. Um, so when it comes to voting, we see, um, counties reducing the sites, like recently in Tarrant County. Mm-hmm. Um, we see elongated hours can't do that - Right. To make it easier for more people to get the polls with their jobs. Right. Um, so there are, we have restrictions on how to use a mail-in ballot. Right. We don't allow drop boxes for a mail ballot. So - Yes. Those are all driven by the leadership in the state, the elected officials. And from my perception of being here for years and following it, most of it's done without Texans knowing. Yes. Does that make sense, George?
George (27:37):
It does. It, it does. And, and some of the justification for all of this is election integrity because the accusation is that there is rampant election fraud. Mm-hmm. Voting fraud that they are preventing from happening by all of these measures that are, uh, that they are undertaking. Now, Robin, I've read your research and, uh, I think people would be interested in knowing how much voter fraud actually exists in the state of Texas.
Robin (28:14):
20 years of research using the Hertage Foundation data, which is a conservative think tank in DC. Mm-hmm. As well as a reporter from Austin who, uh, did, uh, research to get information - uh-huh. And looked at all the cases bought by the attorney general. 150 cases, 20 years, 127 million ballots.
George (28:37):
Yes. 150 cases, 127 million ballots. And yet, we have to have draconian measures to somehow, uh, make sure that we're preventing fraud. So what, what we have are solutions in search of a problem. Correct. Right? Which m- makes you think something else is really driving this. And I think it's very clear that it's not whether you can vote, but who gets to vote, right? Yes. And, uh, the, the kind of work you're doing is not necessarily partisan. Uh, it's not, uh, I mean, it's, it's clearly nonpartisan because, you know, elections should be fair for everyone, right? But we also know that much of what's going on is the, uh, is, is happening in urban areas, right? Which, uh, where, where countywide voting, they attempted to, to, to stop that, which, which would mean that you could go anywhere in the county and vote. Mm-hmm. Right?
George (29:54):
Uh, not just to your local precinct. And of course, if people are working on the other side of the county or something like that, whatever's easiest, uh, the, the, we, we should be able to do that. Um, polling places are closed in certain areas where people would expect that people would be voting one way instead of another. Uh, and, uh, so we know that there is, is a partisan aspect to the politics of election protection, so to speak. Uh, and it, it seems as if, um, we haven't been able to get the word out there, you know, that, to, to help people understand what's really going on. Uh, and every, I think people just assume that it's benign when it's actually malignant, isn't it?
Robin (30:48):
Yes. Um, a glaring example, Dr. Barrero, my colleague, um, the gerrymandering expert, she showed me a presentation she had made to an academic group on what happened in Texas - uh-huh. With our redistricting. Yes. And for Tarrant and Dallas County, we should have six US representatives. Yes. We have three. Yes. So what that means to me, I live in downtown Dallas. Right. My representative is going west. Yes. They totally changed who was part of that district. Right. And Jasmine Crockett's district and put it with somebody that probably doesn't, doesn't even live in the metro rural, metro urban area.
George (31:31):
Right. Mm-hmm.
Robin (31:32):
So that's what's happened. Your representatives have changed. Mm-hmm. And why did they do that? So that they could pick up, um, voters that are inclined to vote Republican. Yes. So that they, they can use data -
George (31:49):
Yes.
Robin (31:50):
And, um, decide who's gonna vote for them and at least fix it so that they know, they have a likely sense of who's gonna turn out and vote.
George (31:59):
Well, short of having a national redistricting commission of some sort, which I think might be an idea, uh, because this gerrymandering has become bizarre and, uh, undemocratic, uh, not representative, uh, in, in, in certain ways, what we did see is an extraordinary, uh, thing happen in, uh, the middle of the 10-year sentence, uh, census, uh - Right. Uh, that, uh, we, we normally do redistricting every 10 years when the US census is done, right? And we do that because then we have the data that would tell us where fair representation happens and what those boundaries should be, and districts do change, uh, you know, as, uh, accordingly. Uh, but here at the halfway point, there was a deliberate intention to redistrict, uh, in order to gain more seats, uh, for Republicans in Congress. And whether that works or not is, you know, something that's gonna be interesting because it could backfire.
George (33:13):
And of course we saw that once Texas did that, then California, uh, did something, you know, and the other states were debating what they were gonna do and, uh, some of them were allowed to by their legal jurisdictions and some of them weren't and that sort of thing. Uh, but when you look at this coming election, Robin, what concerns you most about, uh, not the outcome, but the process of, of, of this election that would lead us to believe that we, uh, we would have free and fair elections?
Robin (33:56):
All right. Let me, um, focus on the voter - Okay. For a second. We know voters, um, just all the data when you ask people why people don't vote - uh-huh. It's a mix of things. It's how you grew up or you, did you grow up in a voting household? It's your motivation. Mm-hmm. It's the information. Yes. And what I'd say to voters here that it's very important to use sources like vote401.org from the league of women voters so that you understand who's running in, possibly if you're in a new district. Mm-hmm. And you can see who's on your ballot - uh-huh. And feel comfortable, have confidence to go vote.
George (34:35):
Yes.
Robin (34:36):
Um, I, so that's important that we're asking all of us to do more work this election. Mm-hmm. Does that make sense? Yes. Given the redistricting - uh-huh. We're asking people to do more work and understand where to vote and their rights this election. Yes. Given the threats we're hearing from the administration. Right. Um, I know from interacting with different election administrators that they are working to make sure that it's safe for you to go vote. Mm-hmm. I know from years past there's, um, great collab- collaboration in Dallas County between the police and the election officials - uh-huh. On exactly what to do if something comes up at a polling location. Mm-hmm. I know judges that have spent years doing their job, they know their job. Mm-hmm. So I think people should be very confident to go vote and to definitely to vote early. Yes. Starting October 19th.
Robin (35:31):
Yes. So the information's there - uh-huh. To feel educated and confident about your ballot. Mm-hmm. And the infrastructure around us in Dallas County and the commissioners, it's there. Mm-hmm. And I'm sure in Tyren County, Colin, Denton, et cetera, for you to vote.
George (35:47):
But what concerns you on election day about people's apprehension of going to vote? Do you, do you have a sense that, I mean, we, what we know is that there are, it is legal now to have, uh, o- observers to, to come in. And sometimes those observers can create a, a specter of, um, of anxiety or, or threat to people who are coming in. And we know that they are able to bring weapons, uh, with them to do, to do that because it's open carry and legal to do that. We've also heard that there's a possibility of ICE showing up, uh, you know, in order to so-called protect the elections. Uh, do you have those concerns, uh, leading up to this election or, uh, do we wanna say to people, "Don't worry about that, just show up and vote?"
Robin (36:49):
No, I think it's important we say, "Of course there's concerns." Mm-hmm. This is unprecedented. Yes. Um, I remember the first time I met an observer sort of watching me very closely and I realized, "Oh, that's the new observer function." Yes. And those observers are placed there by the parties. Yes. Um, so of course, but there's election protection hotline number. I don't - Okay. I should know it off the top of my head. Uh-huh. Um, but o- of course, but go vote with others. Mm-hmm. Don't go alone if you can. Yes. Be aware of what's going on around you. Mm-hmm. Go vote where you've voted before and feel comfortable with countywide voting. Mm-hmm. Um, and, um, just be aware this is your vote, your power to impact this situation. Mm-hmm. And, um, not belittle the fact there are a lot of people that don't want you to vote.
Robin (37:39):
Right.
George (37:40):
What do you want people to know, uh, from your work and as we face this coming election? What's, uh, your most urgent message to people right now?
Robin (37:53):
You must vote.
George (37:54):
Mm-hmm.
Robin (37:56):
You must vote. And what we do in our work is seeking to understand how the state and counties manage election administration - uh-huh. So that we can help voters now and in the future understand the stumbling blocks. Yes. How to get through those. Yes. And, um, the most important message is to understand your status in the voter database.
George (38:22):
Mm-hmm. Okay.
Robin (38:23):
Are you, in fact, active? Right. Are you in suspense? Right. Or are you not there? Yes. And if you though you were there and you're not there, October 5th is the last day to register. Okay.
George (38:33):
All right.
Robin (38:34):
Um, this is our power as citizens of the United States. Mm-hmm. It's important we exercise it. And I'm sure everyone's aware of the continued media messages of somebody showing up that doesn't want you to vote. The fact is you have a right to show up and you have a right to vote. Yes.
George (38:54):
All right. Good. Um, Robin, we, this is a lot of conversation about what's on the front end of voting. Uh, then there's the question of how those votes are verified and tabulated and the integrity of what happens to your vote. Uh, do you have concerns about that - No. In the state of Texas? No. Okay.
Robin (39:24):
Uh, I'm aware and I know people who work the Dallas County process. Okay. I can't speak for the state. Okay. Um, but, um, there are longtime volunteers or public servants who manage that process. Okay. Um, and, uh, the folks that manage the election database, voters - uh-huh. You are a record.
George (39:46):
Yes.
Robin (39:48):
You're not an individual. Ah. Nobody knows me as Robin. Mm-hmm. But their job is to manage that database - uh-huh. So that it's accurate - uh-huh. And up to date.
George (39:59):
Okay. All right.
Robin (40:00):
So that's another thing for all of us to realize. We're just a record. Mm. Um, but the state follows state law - uh-huh. To communicate with you on keeping that record up to date. Okay. So I, I don't believe in all the audits the state has done that there's been any information found that there was funny play in the process.
George (40:22):
Good. Now, maybe the last question, uh, is if you had a magic wand and you wanted to move Texas from 47th to number one - <laugh>... In making it accessible to vote and a, a system in Texas that would work as well as it possibly could, what's your prescription?
Robin (40:49):
I would harness the power of Texans. Mm-hmm. And let me say it this way, what happens in Austin around election law, we're not paying attention to it. Mm. We're just not.
George (41:02):
Okay.
Robin (41:03):
And what I've called for and talked about is online voter registration would move us quickly up that scale on the cost of voting index. Okay. Mm-hmm. And we have a perfect moment with what's happened in DPS - uh-huh. To say to our representatives, to call them now, the people that are on our ballot and ask them, "Do you support online voter registration?"
George (41:27):
Mm-hmm.
Robin (41:27):
Right. Ask them. Right. Hope it decide how you want to vote. Mm-hmm. Because I don't know if people... We don't have it here in Texas. Right. You can, you can register if you're updating your license. Yes. That is not online reg - voter registration. Right. And Texans should know 42 other states have it. Mm-hmm. So to move the needle is to get the engagement with the people who represent you - uh-huh. Personally, call them, write them. Good. Ask them their opinion. Tell them what you think. Right. So that they know -
George (41:57):
Uh-huh.
Robin (41:58):
Texans are aware, their constituents are aware - uh-huh. Of what's going on to the voting rights. That's, I mean, use the data from, from what we've published on Substack, from other organizations. Mm-hmm. But really pick up the phone and call. You'll probably get a staffer. I worked at one point in, in Congress. That's okay. Right. See, I'm a consistent, constituent of George, and I really wanna know before I vote. Mm-hmm. Does he support online voter registration? Good. Especially given what recently happened with DPS. And let me - uh-huh. Just say something because I approached this from a business background - uh-huh. Data background. DPS is a huge Texas agency. Mm-hmm. 12,000 or more employees. Mm-hmm. 20 divisions. 70% of voting registrations going through that process. Mm-hmm. There's no division for voter registration. Wow. So from a business point of view, that tells you there's no leader, there's no accountability.
Robin (42:54):
Ah. Texans should be asking for that. Right. They should ask for... Somebody at DPS to be responsible for the voter registration process. Okay. That's another question.
George (43:08):
Okay. You have a Substack. We want people to be able to go to it. What, where should they go? What's it called?
Robin (43:16):
So substack.com, go there and it's called Vo- Voter Use It or Lose It. But just type my name in. Okay. It'll pop up, Robin Lederer.
George (43:24):
Terrific. And, and we'll, we'll put it out with this, uh, podcast so people have access to it. And other ways that people can get involved in promoting, uh, voting, uh, not in a partisan way, but in order to promote democracy, uh, League of Women Voters and other organizations like that. Uh, I think, um, again, Robin will help, uh, guide you through that and, uh, let you know who's doing good work, uh, in this, in this area. But Robin, what we, what we're really trying to do is remind people that, uh, they have agency.
Robin (44:01):
Yes.
George (44:02):
They have personal agency to take care of their own voting registration, to make sure that they're eligible to vote and not to be victimized by someone else who would, um, have mal intent for them in that regard or just, uh, because the system is broken. Uh, but they also have agency to get involved. Yes. To get involved in promoting democracy in free elections. So if you are interested in this, I'm gonna send you to the, to the Substack again, and you can contact Robin there. Uh, we thank you for being a faithful dissenter. Thank you. Uh, and because it's not just about saying what's wrong, it's about having a vision for what's right.
Robin (44:42):
Yes, absolutely. Not just research for research, but research for change.
George (44:46):
Terrific. Yeah. Robin, thank you for, so much for being with us. Thank you. And thank you for being with us on Good God. Until next time, keep the faith.